Rotor hopper

[BigEvil]

Haha. The shell is this 3 piece design that in my honest opinion seemed flimsy. Upon taking off the front piece (of which they will have several different sized fronts similar to the pinokio) the other two back parts are pretty much held together by the lid. Seemed that these two pieces came apart 'too' easy. The one I saw had a built in speed feed system which was neat but I'll take a Virtue Crown over it any day of the week. The drive system is where the money is. The cone, I must say, is intricately designed and well thought out. It snapped on and off the main axle with ease and has the magna drive system standard, which I think is neat, but complicated. It is advanced, probably the most advanced and thought out loader system (not yet) available, but I can't say I was impressed at all. Just too many parts, way way too many parts in comparison to the rotor. Dye has made a good looking product, well thought out, simple and easy, exactly what you would expect.

I will however say that I respect the R&D at kee, and they are moving things forward in design and technology, and I truly respect Simon (Manike) and think he is a wizard of paintball. I think though that one of the biggest problems with paintball is that things are too complicated for common paintball players (idiots) and that the more simple things are, the better off everyone is. You don't have to make the Nova of hoppers because it makes the most sense.

Smaller, faster, lighter, more efficient, easier maintenance; this is where paintball needs to be going.

Rotor form=function
prophecy function>form, actually function is beating the hell out of form here

I've sold 21 rotors in the past 3 weeks, 0 complaints, 100% impressed happy customers, so far. Thats like a rotor a day, right? haha.

-GC

On a side note, I have a very low opinion of the pinokio hopper as well, totally not impressive, unless you want the newest version of the riccochet apache with removable nose. El douche.

Excellent reply. "Complicated" has never frightened me. I was going to get a first hand look at the Prophesy this weekend but unfortunately I have fallen behind on my Xmas shopping - AND my neighbor has more lights up than we do. So I picked up 5 more sets and plan on being busy all day Saturday

[paint magnet]

Haven't payed much attention to the new paintball market, but this sounds like the device that just might replace my 12v. Revolution!

Call me weird, but I'm glad someone is finally making a "flimsy" loader. My old pre-BE Revo was "flimsy" and it outlasted 4 pairs of the "new and improved" shells which were supposed to be better, harder, and more durable. I had problems with the hard plastic Halo and Ricochet shells cracking. Hell, even my flexible pods are more durable...and I know of a local field which is still using their original Indian Springs loaders which are over 15 years old...also a flexible plastic.

[Skeeter]

Haven't payed much attention to the new paintball market, but this sounds like the device that just might replace my 12v. Revolution!

Call me weird, but I'm glad someone is finally making a "flimsy" loader. My old pre-BE Revo was "flimsy" and it outlasted 4 pairs of the "new and improved" shells which were supposed to be better, harder, and more durable. I had problems with the hard plastic Halo and Ricochet shells cracking. Hell, even my flexible pods are more durable...and I know of a local field which is still using their original Indian Springs loaders which are over 15 years old...also a flexible plastic.

That is exactly the correct assessment on the shell. When BE bought VL, they changed the plastic formulation (heard from an industry insider that the new formula saved about $0.47 per revvy shell) and ruined the product. The early VL2000s were (and still are) the best VL/BE products produced (IMHO).

The shell of the Rotor is a similar (very firm, but not rigid or brittle) plastic to that of the early VL2000s. It actually feels tougher, but the fit & finish is sooooo much better than any other hopper I have ever seen.



My favorite post of all time!!!
PS: http://www.automags.org/forums/showp...7&postcount=33

[Geoff Call]

Haven't payed much attention to the new paintball market, but this sounds like the device that just might replace my 12v. Revolution!

Call me weird, but I'm glad someone is finally making a "flimsy" loader. My old pre-BE Revo was "flimsy" and it outlasted 4 pairs of the "new and improved" shells which were supposed to be better, harder, and more durable. I had problems with the hard plastic Halo and Ricochet shells cracking. Hell, even my flexible pods are more durable...and I know of a local field which is still using their original Indian Springs loaders which are over 15 years old...also a flexible plastic.

Paint Magnet, when I say flimsy, I'm referring to the cheap rigid breakability of the prophecy, not the flimsy in regards to the flexibility of old revvy shells.

-GC

[paint magnet]

Paint Magnet, when I say flimsy, I'm referring to the cheap rigid breakability of the prophecy, not the flimsy in regards to the flexibility of old revvy shells.

-GC

Gotcha, although I'll admit this is the first I've heard of the Prophecy either.

I'll definately look your field up next time I'm in Charleston (I live in Spartanburg). Do y'all have a website?

[Geoff Call]

Gotcha, although I'll admit this is the first I've heard of the Prophecy either.

I'll definately look your field up next time I'm in Charleston (I live in Spartanburg). Do y'all have a website?

Yeah, it's www.paintballcharleston.net mostly useful for the forums, which at best will get you berated and humiliated. Your best bet would be to hit up me or Skeeter here on AO or to call me at the shop 11-7 MWF.

-GC

[Rudz]

Yeah the plastic on the rotor is flexible, just feels strong and very durable, I'm 6 foot, 270, and I grabbed this loader and squeezed hard on both sides, it flexed, but that's about it

Don't ever hesitate doing bussiness with PBC those guys help you with ANY problem you have and gotta be some of the most stand up dudes I've never even personally met, lol

[manike]

Geoff, I'm curious where you got to see a Prophecy with the Quick load lid?

Haha. The shell is this 3 piece design that in my honest opinion seemed flimsy. Upon taking off the front piece (of which they will have several different sized fronts similar to the pinokio) the other two back parts are pretty much held together by the lid.

The lid doesn't hold anything together really. The back sections of the body are held together by the front section of the body, and by the back plate.

The three piece design of the outer feedneck means the body shells can't come apart when on a gun (unlike all the horizontally split body shells) and it means the neck is more flexible and less rigid so it can take some abuse and not crack.

Seemed that these two pieces came apart 'too' easy.

As they should once the front body is removed. How can they come apart too easily if they can't come apart when the loader is on a gun? and definitely can't come apart when the front body is installed?

The one I saw had a built in speed feed system which was neat but I'll take a Virtue Crown over it any day of the week.

Again why? The Quick load lid system on the Prophecy has all the benefits of the competition and a lot more advantages.




For instance... Here's a video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDcbZ3vGwOc

This system can be opened like a normal lid to fill it from a bag of paint at the beginning of the day, or to top up just a few balls, or to allow you to empty it through the lid at the end of the day too.

Even with the "Limo" front body that carries 280 balls the lid won't open during play. I played Wayne's World with the Quick Load Lid, and the "Limo" front body. Didn't spill a single ball, and had a great time! The extra paint sure was handy in a crazy fire fight.

The lid system is also designed to automatically open the fingers with standard pods. You're no longer have to rely on the weight of the paint to open the speed feed tm (although that works too!). The pod can insert partially into the lid system and automatically opens the fingers. This means you can load a full or partially full pod with into your loader with the same ease.

However in my testing of the prototype with 1, 5, 10, 20, 30 or 40 balls in the pod and in every circumstance it would load them just from the weight/momentum of the balls without actually even needing to insert the pod into the Quick load lid's opening.

I didn't even mention how much larger we made the lid opening to make it easy to load with the normal lid or the Quick load lid system.

It's a dual durometer molded system with a more rigid polymer core and a softer durometer flap system with special ridges/bumps that allow the auto opening and make the one way gated system work as intended.

The standard lid just has the magnet system. The optional friction fit lid system has a lip like the original Halo B body shells and snaps down into place.

The Quick load lid has both the snap, and the magnets, so it will hold closed much harder. If you want it to hold less, just take the magnets out and use the friction part, but the option is there for you. Since you won't often be opening it during play I intentionally made it a lot harder to open, but still easy enough for when you are in the pits.

The drive system is where the money is. The cone, I must say, is intricately designed and well thought out. It snapped on and off the main axle with ease and has the magna drive system standard, which I think is neat, but complicated. It is advanced, probably the most advanced and thought out loader system (not yet) available, but I can't say I was impressed at all. Just too many parts, way way too many parts in comparison to the rotor.

Actually the Prophecy has less parts than a Magna or a Rotor. It has 17 less screws than a Rotor!

The Magna clutch system on the Prophecy is far more simple than it was on the Magna. It can even be taken out without diss-assembling the loader.

I think though that one of the biggest problems with paintball is that things are too complicated for common paintball players (idiots) and that the more simple things are, the better off everyone is.

I think that is sometimes very true. I do want people to get value for their money though.

Smaller, faster, lighter, more efficient, easier maintenance; this is where paintball needs to be going.

I agree. Which is why the Prophecy is a very light, genuine force feed loader with no screws, nuts or bolts anywhere, and can be disassembled in less than a minute and a half and rebuilt in less than 3 minutes from every single part. You can't even come close to that with any other loader.

Check this video showing the weight of the Prophecy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C121jjn9H6w

I think I made a mistake in showing videos of the loader fully dissassembled. People think there are more parts than other loaders just because they have never seen the other loaders taken apart to the same level. Ultimately the Prophecy can be just as simple and easy to use as any other loader if you choose to ignore the added functionality and design.

Please take apart a Rotor fully and take some pictures. You will see what I mean. Do the same with a Halo or a Magna and you will see that the Prophecy has less parts, and they are bigger and easier to handle in almost every case.

prophecy function>form, actually function is beating the hell out of form here

Can you explain a little more about what you mean here please?

Paint Magnet, when I say flimsy, I'm referring to the cheap rigid breakability of the prophecy, not the flimsy in regards to the flexibility of old revvy shells.

-GC

Hmm. Very strange. The Prophecies feedneck is made from an almost identical material to the old revvy shells. It's designed to transfer the forces out of the weakpoints and to the stronger surfaces of the body shell.

It's body is made from a new blend of material that is not only far stronger than previous shells but also much more flexible. As a 6'5" 250lb person I can stand on the nose cone and not damage it. I can flex the sides of it in and it will still fit and work on the loader.

I've held one in a vice and pounded on the feedneck with a hammer and been unable to break the neck off the front body shell. I don't think there's any substance to the comments "cheap, rigid, and breakable".

We need the rain to stop here so I can go outside and shoot some paint, but until then here's a video of the Prophecy with reballs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reXVPwaubAQ

[Geoff Call]

Got to see one last month at a scenario game here in Charleston. IIRC Joe brought it down and Paul gave me a 1on1.

I appreciate the simplicity of the shell design, the drive system, the feed system, and the thought put into all of them. I cannot, however, expect this thing to hold up given NPS/Kee's record in hoppers. Given ODESSEY's design for a drive system has been a metric in the hopper market for years now, and you guys have made great improvements to this. Even companies (like pulse), who claim these indestructible designs, are still replacing (indestructible) shells which were destroyed from regular play, not people hitting them with a hammer in a vice. When I held this thing, the shells felt like the same rigid plastic used in the halo/reloaderb. If I'm wrong about this that's fine. I hope for the sake of all the work you have done that the prophecy is made to a different standard than many of nps/kee's previous quality pieces.

As far as function over form, like I stated before, the simpler things are, the better. Like you stated it can be used like any other hopper, if ignoring the extras.

I'm giving my opinion throughout the thread, you are the only one here with facts, by all means correct me. I mean no disrespect to the work you do, Simon, I humble myself to you.

I expect to be amazed when/if this thing becomes available.

-GC

[manike]

Geoff, I could have told you the Pulse's feedneck would break as soon as I saw one, the implementation of the plastic in that situation was text book wrong. They had changes in plastic thickness at a crucial strength point, and they did so as they went around a sharp corner in the tooling, couldn't have been worse. What they did was slow down the material so it could crystallize AND put stresses into the material before it even left the tool.

The area of the Pulse they used to bang in nails was strong, even while the feednecks were weak. This is because of the part and tooling design, not just the material used.

The Prophecy is made from a different material to the most recent Halo B. The feedneck force transfer system makes for the strongest feedneck we've ever put on a loader. And that goes for playing conditions too. I've been using a prototype body shell in real play since the end of February. Even the prototype material body (which is normally fragile) put up with playing and non stop use for over 8 months. Heck they still look good. I only changed them once the production parts came off the tool. The outer material for the body is a constant thickness, and radius to reduce/remove stresses at the corners of the feedneck as well. It's soo different and better than the Halo or Magna feedneck since I got to start this project from scratch and not just continue on with the previous Odyssey work.

If I could just get the damn software to work with my new camera format (teach me to buy a fancy HD camera) I'd be able to show you. I'm working on that.

The Prophecy is already out, although the first batch sold out so fast, very few are available until the next batch.

[Geoff Call]

Geoff, I could have told you the Pulse's feedneck would break as soon as I saw one, the implementation of the plastic in that situation was text book wrong. They had changes in plastic thickness at a crucial strength point, and they did so as they went around a sharp corner in the tooling, couldn't have been worse. What they did was slow down the material so it could crystallize AND put stresses into the material before it even left the tool.

The area of the Pulse they used to bang in nails was strong, even while the feednecks were weak. This is because of the part and tooling design, not just the material used.

The Prophecy is made from a different material to the most recent Halo B. The feedneck force transfer system makes for the strongest feedneck we've ever put on a loader. And that goes for playing conditions too. I've been using a prototype body shell in real play since the end of February. Even the prototype material body (which is normally fragile) put up with playing and non stop use for over 8 months. Heck they still look good. I only changed them once the production parts came off the tool. The outer material for the body is a constant thickness, and radius to reduce/remove stresses at the corners of the feedneck as well. It's soo different and better than the Halo or Magna feedneck since I got to start this project from scratch and not just continue on with the previous Odyssey work.

If I could just get the damn software to work with my new camera format (teach me to buy a fancy HD camera) I'd be able to show you. I'm working on that.

The Prophecy is already out, although the first batch sold out so fast, very few are available until the next batch.

This is good to know. Like I said, I appreciate the work YOU put into things. Your handler however tends to take something nice and see how 'efficiently' they can make it. You know what I'm saying. Hope it goes smoothly.

-GC

[manike]

This is good to know. Like I said, I appreciate the work YOU put into things.

Thank you. I guess you can tell I have my heart and soul into what I do.

Your handler however tends to take something nice and see how 'efficiently' they can make it. You know what I'm saying.

I do. I like any engineer has to work within certain constraints and limitations. I fight daily for the best quality that we can produce though, and the best value.

ATB

Simon

[trevorjk]

i dont know if its just me, but every time Simon writes something on the board, i read it and hear his accent in my head to much time on youtube for me... id say the accent is sexy, but i think that would be a little wierd...

[teufelhunden]

Every time I read something Manike writes, it makes me want to go spend money... and I haven't played in 4ish years.

[Lomarandil]

Every time I read something Manike writes, it makes me want to go spend money

Exactly. Dang you Simon, you speak to the Engineering side of my brain and bypass the idea of bills and tuition to pay...

I think the only reason I'm safe right now is that you've not come out with an SPPL legal hopper. If you did, I'd be hosed.

Lo