Serious Issue: Anger on the Field

[manike]

Two wrongs do NOT make a right

manike

[cphilip]

Ahhhhhhh....revenge!!!....now thats different isn't it?

[magmonkey]

I have had issues with anger on the field
my problems came from my own team wich is unfortunate. Because on one hand I have my first team Mass Destruction doing all we can to get a good name for ourselves

And then on the other team that I play for, we have a few players that are real pieces of human watste on the field and they give us all a bad name and of course the team with the bad attitudes have the sponsorship and Mass D doesn't get recognized.

it is frustrating

I have decided to just play for Mass this season because why should I let sombody ealse wreck my name

[FatMan]

Wrong and Write

Originally posted by manike
Two wrongs do NOT make a right

manike

No, they make 1.37 lefts, but that's not the point.

As long as we stay within the rules of safety and decorum, isn't it OK to raise (or lower) your game to the level of your opponent. Consider basketball. If every single foul were called, the game would get old fast. The refs call the game at some level - there is a certain amount of wrong they look for before they make a call. A player that plays dirty has to adjust to a ref that calls the game tight, or he's in foul trouble. On the other hand a player that plays clean will loose if he doesn't adjust HIS game to a ref that calls loose.

So, if a player seems willing to be a little too free with his paint, why not back at him? He might decide to back off once he tastes it a bit too often. If not, at least you get the satisfaction of seeing that he gets his. I am assuming that we aren't being rediculous here (please no posts implying I'm saying its OK to overshoot). Certainly if someone is WAY out of line that can be corrected through the proper authorities.

This logic tends to apply to bunkering too. If some guy likes to bunker people, fine. Bunker HIM! If that's OK with him, then at least we're all on the same page now.

And how about if I've had a bad day at the office? So I go out to the local field and light my buddy up. Next game he paints me head to toe. All is even, and I get my aggression out! Seems fair!

Don't agree with me? Hey, I'll rochambeau you for it!

FatMan

[manike]

Re: Wrong and Write

Within the rules fair is fair but why break the rules? Isn't it better to lift someone else to your level than lower yourself to theirs?

Originally posted by FatMan
As long as we stay within the rules of safety and decorum,

As soon as you shoot someone who is already eliminated if you know you are doing it you are breaking the rules of decorum.

Basketball yeah played that, played rugby too. I can honestly say I have never thrown the first punch on the field and I can't actually think of when I have ever thrown one on the field... But if someone ever punched me they would regret it. I would play within the rules and play fair but take my revenge clean and fair. Punch me and I would break ribs the next time I tackled you (I was renowned for my tackles). Or I would rake the player off the ball while leaving my initials in his body (you could spot people who had played foul in the showers after a game). All clean and fair within the rules of the game...

There is no need to lower yourselve to someone elses bad behaviour. Get even within the game. Bunker the foo or shoot him out clean. Much more satisfying. Don't you feel like crap when you break the rules and act badly on someone who is already eliminated? I have better respect for myself and sportsmanship than to conduct myself in such a manner.

Originally posted by FatMan
(please no posts implying I'm saying its OK to overshoot).

but that's exactly what you just did... in fact you implied it was ok to shoot someone that wasn't expecting it and was already eliminated. That's worse...

Originally posted by FatMan
So, if a player seems willing to be a little too free with his paint, why not back at him?

Because when does it stop? I hit you with two extra balls next game you hit me with four. Then I bunker you and hit you with six... It just gets worse and worse and ultimately shows a lack of self control. Get even by all means but fairly. It will be sweeter.

The tit for tat mentality of many Americans is very sad. I think it's one reason there is so much violence in your sport and on your streets.

Originally posted by FatMan
This logic tends to apply to bunkering too. If some guy likes to bunker people, fine. Bunker HIM! If that's OK with him, then at least we're all on the same page now.

That's different, it's within the rules and is 100% fair and ok with me. Too right bunker him back

Originally posted by FatMan
Don't agree with me? Hey, I'll rochambeau you for it!

What the hell is a rochambeau?

manike (a sportsman)

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Re: Re: Wrong and Write

Originally posted by manike
The tit for tat mentality of many Americans is very sad. I think it's one reason there is so much violence in your sport and on your streets.

whoa whoa whoa. our sport? since when was anything simply OUR sport? and i find it hard to believe that it's only americans that are violent on the field. i don't know any non-american paintball teams or players, but i can almost say with certainty that any paintball player, european, american, canadian, ect., are going to have outbursts on the field.

last time i checked, britain wasn't a crime free country.

[manike]

When I said 'your sport' I wasn't just talking paintball but sport in general.

There is violence in paintball all over the world. It's an agressive game. I'm priveleged that I have played paintball all over the world. In my opinion there is more overshooting and fights and violence in American paintball than I have seen anywhere else (although it obviously does happen elsewhere).

It may well be a culture thing? Come to think of it the violent issues which stick in my mind and that I saw in the Millenium series last year were all instigated by American teams...

Britian obviously isn't crime free and I never implied that but we don't have the same scale of problem with tit for tat drive by shootings and gang related tit for tat crime.

manike

[shartley]

Soccer... now THAT is a real nonviolent sport. Well, at least it isn't in the US. In Europe on the other hand....

Please folks, pointing fingers only ends up getting someones eye poked.

(I will leave it at that.)

[manike]

Football (soccer) is a sport with more violence off the pitch than on it. That's unfortunately due the spectator demographics. But it has improved dramatically in the last few years.

Football (Soccer) is a contact sport and people play it as such but you also see any violent offenders rapidly clamped down on. It's not accepted. It is much more stringently reffed now than it has ever been.

There is bad behaviour and violence on the pitch but it is also being clamped down on with new rules etc. Bad language can now be penalised and incidents that are captured on camera are subject to further penalties after the fact. Europe is doing a lot to reduce the violence in our sport both on and off the pitch.

A 'tit for tat' violence on the pitch is punishable with an instant red card. Just look at what happened to Beckham and our last World Cup chances. He was fouled and the ref was going to book the offender. Beckham retaliated and was immediately red carded and sent off. Quite rightly.

I think people obviously bonus balling should be eliminated from the game also...

manike

[shartley]

[FatMan]

Re: Re: Wrong and Write

Originally posted by manike

but that's exactly what you just did... in fact you implied it was ok to shoot someone that wasn't expecting it and was already eliminated. That's worse...

[ ... ]

What the hell is a rochambeau?

manike (a sportsman)

Well, actually I was asking if it was OK.

Rochambeau (sp?) is a "game" where by to settle a dispute two guys trade kicks to the balls until one gives up. Rediculous, no?

FatMan

[shartley]

[FatMan]

Originally posted by manike

There is violence in paintball all over the world. It's an agressive game. I'm priveleged that I have played paintball all over the world. In my opinion there is more overshooting and fights and violence in American paintball than I have seen anywhere else (although it obviously does happen elsewhere).

It may well be a culture thing?

manike

Now THAT was the point of the post. Not the bit about American versus European, but the simple assumption of violence in paintball - and the culture thing. Shartley added:

Originally posted by shartley

But I think you also helped bring things into better perspective. Many times it IS about demographics. And to get at the real problem, and the solution, involves
sociology. And as an industry, those involved in Paintball need to keep an honest view of their target demographics and the benefits/problems that can come from
them. Also until Paintball becomes more mainstream, you will continue to get fringe people who play it? after all it appeals to a certain type of person, like it or not. And
many of these people have a hard time turning on and off their aggressions.

[ ... ]

And as I see it, until the world can focus on the actual problems and not the ?demographic?, there will be NO change. After all, you can not change the entire
demographic in one grand swoop, but you CAN control the individual. And demographics are made up of MANY individuals?. Change enough of the parts, and the
whole becomes a different thing.

So, how do we respond to this demographic? Do we just say "Hey, that's the way it is? We just deal with it?" So either I just live with these bozos shooting me up, cheating, cursing, etc. or I do it back to them, or what? What is my alternative?

Personally, I've never felt anger or a desire to do violence when playing paintball - and it never seems to hurt my game. I go after my opponent with lustful zeal, but when I get shot I laugh it off. When I get OVERSHOT I wave my arms and GET OFF THE FIELD FAST! I'm playing paintball, I EXPECT to get shot.

And you guys are right, this isn't a paintball only issue (maybe should move to friendly?) A week ago I saw an 11 year old kid carried out of a basketball game on a stretcher while the kid that fouled him grinned and strutted back and forth and his parents yelled taunts. Made me sick! I'd rather not have THOSE people on my paintball field.

Maybe there should be a license required to play paintball - and a psych test to get the license. Pacifist-only paintball ! Personally, I think it all started with John McEnroe (sp?) who introduced bad sportsmanship to tennis. Now paintball is going down the tubes!

Its enough to make an old fart cry !

FatMan

[manike]

Originally posted by shartley

Yes but they are taking steps to stop those problems. They are not accepting them as part of the game and thus 'OK'. That is my whole point. You shouldn't just accept such things and you shouldn't lower yourself to someone elses level. Violence in and associated with footbal has been dramatically reduced.

Originally posted by FatMan
Rochambeau (sp?) is a "game" where by to settle a dispute two guys trade kicks to the balls until one gives up. Rediculous, no?

nah sounds like fun, mind if I start? (I expect after my go I will give up and let you win hehehe

Originally posted by FatMan
Personally, I've never felt anger or a desire to do violence when playing paintball - and it never seems to hurt my game. I go after my opponent with lustful zeal, but when I get shot I laugh it off. When I get OVERSHOT I wave my arms and GET OFF THE FIELD FAST! I'm playing paintball, I EXPECT to get shot.

I agree 100% and I can also tell you have done your share of reffing. I spent 3 years where I couldn't really afford to play so I reffed just to remain part of the sport. I think that experience and the things I saw is why I feel the way I do now.

Originally posted by FatMan
And you guys are right, this isn't a paintball only issue (maybe should move to friendly?) A week ago I saw an 11 year old kid carried out of a basketball game on a stretcher while the kid that fouled him grinned and strutted back and forth and his parents yelled taunts. Made me sick! I'd rather not have THOSE people on my paintball field.

That disgusts me, how can people support that? What culture makes that kid think it's ok and how can his parents support it? That saddens me greatly. I used to coach a rugby team, if he did that on my team he'd be off the pitch and cut.

Again you hit the nail on the head. I don't want to play paintball with people like that and I don't want them on my team or field. I have previously quit teams and major sponsorship when I thought they were bringing me and the game into disrepute. I'm proud to be an honorary member of Canadian Contingent who are known for their sportsmanship and to play on the Warpig Factory team where the no1. requisit is sportsmanship and manners.

I refer back to my rugby experience where a lot of people accept violence as 'part of the game' well not if they play with me. I've played for county, region, University first team and a Town first team (the year before they went proffessional) so I've played at a very high level, the equivalent of someone in the USA playing for their state and then the north or south etc. I would never accept violence being part of the game. It isn't. And if we as people involved don't stand up against it then who will?

Originally posted by FatMan
Personally, I think it all started with John McEnroe (sp?) who introduced bad sportsmanship to tennis. Now paintball is going down the tubes!

Yeah him and his damn racquet abuse... I blame him for Mark Knop and Lasoya throwing their guns

manike

[shartley]

Manike

Yes but they are taking steps to stop those problems. They are not accepting them as part of the game and thus 'OK'. That is my whole point. You shouldn't just accept such things and you shouldn't lower yourself to someone elses level. Violence in and associated with footbal has been dramatically reduced.

FatMan

So, how do we respond to this demographic? Do we just say "Hey, that's the way it is? We just deal with it?" So either I just live with these bozos shooting me up, cheating, cursing, etc. or I do it back to them, or what? What is my alternative?