Ramping fire and how it relates to rapid fire

[MKing]

I haven't been playing paintball for too long but it seems that in the past couple of years there has been a change on rulings with ramping modes. As far as I can tell it has gone from being a blatant cheater mode and illegal at commercial fields to being accepted more and more as long as it is below a certain bps cap.

My question is whether there has been a change in rules regarding rapid fire and trigger bounce. Trigger bounce has generally been illegal, but has anyone found fields, big games or tourneys becoming more lenient on limited use?

I am assuming that it isn't fully legal considering that you can't electronically cap it like an electro, but I am just wondering if people have been getting away with any more than in the past. Maybe refs allowing a little trigger bounce but not full on spray?

[Beemer]

Its a dont ask dont tell thing.

Where are you from? What ARE the rules at the commercial field you play at. FPS, ROF etc....

If you want to know ask the owner of the field you play at what his insurance policy says.
Be warned asking questions is a bad thing when it comes to safety and standards in Paintball.

Some tourneys allow full auto. Some fields run at a risk at what they allow, it just depends.

Here are some questions. At what range and what ROF is it SAFE to be hit with a Paintball at 300FPS with an ASTM Max ball weight of 3.5Grams?

I dont think that answered your questions. Maybe this will help.

The ASTM standards are one shot one pull no modes at 300FPS with a 3.5Gram ball weight MAX. at size of 16.5 mm (0.650 in.) and 18 mm (0.709 in.) Dia.

Most paint today is less then 3.5grams.

And the standards dont really mean cause its dont ask dont tell.

The tip for the day........If you will be up close and personal playing, protect as much of your head and neck as you can with what ever and wear a neck guard and dont shoot at another player at close range above the shoulders. An umbrella policy might be considered on your part if you think you might hurt someone.

Thats the whole problem we as players[not me] dont think it will be our problem or we will be responsible when it hits the fan. Think again

Play SAFE, obey the rules, be smart and have fun.

[punkncat]

IIRC ASTM standard ROF cap was an "agreed" upon 10 or 13 BPS, which (in spite of ramping) most series and fields at least in this area are now at or under.

First off, I don't mind ramping at all. There was a period of time, right after ramping and trigger debounce settings were new to us all, that most fields and series did not enforce a ROF cap. It was awful, especially when the egg was replaced with the Halo, and people were running around shooting each other with markers shooting 20++ BPS. Many people see ramping as a "cheat", I was just glad to see some order come to the chaos that was before.

Now that didn't really answer your questions...and to that I say this.

At least in my experience, I have noticed that most fields around here will gig you on a bouncing RT mode IF it is blatently and obviously working above the ROF cap they have in place. I have noted that most larger scenarios have not enforced their own rules concerning them. Be it too populous to properly enforce, or simply being apathetic, I do not know.


I find it kind of funny, really that AGD was always so staunch about the ASTM standards and has for years been at least one of two manufacturers that produced a mechanical marker that was well capable of surpassing those standards right out of the box.

[BigEvil]

I find it kind of funny, really that AGD was always so staunch about the ASTM standards and has for years been at least one of two manufacturers that produced a mechanical marker that was well capable of surpassing those standards right out of the box.

NOPE. The mech guns are built with longer than needed on/off pins to prevent this. The only way to get an agd mech gun to RT (or 'bounce') excessively is to modify it, or go over the recommended input PSI.

Same thing with the Emags. The .712 pin is overkill.

[punkncat]

NOPE. The mech guns are built with longer than needed on/off pins to prevent this. The only way to get an agd mech gun to RT (or 'bounce') excessively is to modify it, or go over the recommended input PSI.

Same thing with the Emags. The .712 pin is overkill.

I really can't argue that with you. It is correct that by either method of "modification" you take the manufacturer out of the equation.

I have a feeling about the classic RT's and have even seen some RTP's that beat that cap out of the box, however lacking proof of it, it makes my "feeling" a mute point in spite of my personal experience.


That said, it still does not change the fact the the markers are capable of it as advertized "the fastest mechs made" and recharge up to 20+ BPS claims by AGD themselves. As the argument goes...if you are so concerned about these standards not being followed, why make a marker that is capable of surpassing them? Why advertize it?

Because, in spite of the "objection" (etc.) that is what people wanted and what was selling.

How many years ago would AGD have gone under if they never went past the classic valve in terms of performance?

[Chronobreak]

I agree, asking some field operators what the rules are might lead you to hearing something you dont want to hear.

or they may say they are one thing when they allow another.

I agree wkth BigE here.

now our field and most the othere i am aware of are semi only , however i know that theres alot more than semi markers going onto the fields. we even get someone at our rec only field trying to go out with ramping or 3 shot , and the excuse is always the same.

if its not allowed why did they put it on my gun, either that or they knew theyw ere in the wrong and act as if they did not know.

as long as manufacturers are putting these mods on the markers people are going to use them.

maybe someone needs to make the manufacturers stop

long story short, if i go somewhere and they are not using semi i will be sure to ask about the policy and why it isnt/how its being enforced. I know the insurance cost of allowing anything other than semi and most fields would not be able or willing to pay that extra fee.

so i would assume either they are not insured for it and are not enforcing it

or are insured but dont feel the need to have a set standard that everyone can follow.

either way its probly not the type of place you want to be playing.

[BigEvil]

.

How many years ago would AGD have gone under if they never went past the classic valve in terms of performance?

Here is something else to ponder. The classic valve can cycle 5xs more per second than the currently allowed max ROF. I think the only problems with the classic valve are A) that they made from stainless steel, and B) that the whole 'drop-off' myth coming from the cocker guys back in the day was overbearing.

I would LOVE an aluminum classic valve right now. Put that sucker in my pump mag and I'd be a happy camper.

[punkncat]

Here is something else to ponder. The classic valve can cycle 5xs more per second than the currently allowed max ROF. I think the only problems with the classic valve are A) that they made from stainless steel, and B) that the whole 'drop-off' myth coming from the cocker guys back in the day was overbearing.

I would LOVE an aluminum classic valve right now. Put that sucker in my pump mag and I'd be a happy camper.

True that the valve can physically cycle and recharge that fast, however, it isn't happening with a mech trigger and the stock on/off. So IF the rt on/off mode, hyperframe, etc. weren't an option...I don't see beating the cap with a classic valve. At least not on any regular, reliable, and sustainable manner.
(and aside from the topic at hand, I would LOVE to see an all aluminum classic valve as well)