Feedback on the sport for field owners

[dreadpirate]

I have created this thread in hopes of attracting constructive criticism of the sport of paintball in general. Feel free to offer new rules suggestions, mention issues you see at the majority of fields you play at, or ways of doing things that stand out as especially good, etc.

In other words, what about the game, which can be affected by a field or shop owner, could be changed to attract more players to their field?

My own:

1) Don't start so early! Some of us work the night shift, and others are plain lazy. And on Sundays, we have church in the morning. Example: my local field starts the first game at 9am. It takes me 1hr and 15 min. to get there, and about an hour and a half prior to leaving to eat breakfast, change, load my gear into the car, round up all my friends, half of whom are still asleep. All-in-all, I have to wake up at 5 am, after getting off work at midnight the night before, and since my friends did not wake up, we will still be late, but have to pay the same entry fee as everyone else.
Solution: Start at 11 am, or even noon, and run until an hour before sunset or so. Or, offer straggler discounts so players don't just give up on showing up at all, just because they've missed half the day.

2) Play something new for each game: playing capture the flag from each side on three different fields gets old.
Solution: Mix up the game styles, ask for volunteers to play 'VIP', or play '1776': make all the players leave their hoppers off the field, and single load their guns only. A paintball in flight is a very accurate simulation of an old style musket ball's flight. I would love to try a game of 'supply lines' some time, where players can bring all the paint they want to the field, even still in the case, but can only carry one pod in play. The rest is set along the rear tape line. Any player can run to the rear tapeline to refill or swap their one pod as many times as they want, or designate a 'runner' to refill/swap it for them. A center base is setup, which either team can capture, allowing them to move all their paint up to that position, in an area labeled in their team's color, but if it is captured by the other team, the former owners have to leave it there, until/if they take the base over again. The end goal is still classic capture the flag, however, and the flag stations are somewhat separate from the rear tapeline, making it possible to clinch a game by cutting off the other team's supply lines. The game style would integrate a bit of a 'scenario' feel to classic capture the flag, and also encourage teamwork, since pushing forward too far alone will cut you off from your supply lines. The need to head to the rear to resupply, or wait for a runner to deliver more paint will require a more strategic thought process, and allow a weakened team to turn the tables if the stronger team overextends itself.

3) Provide a 'bunny hill'. Being new to paintball was scary enough when the other team only shot 5-8 shots per second max. Getting bunkered by an 18 bps electro is enough to convince a new player to never come back. My first game ever, I had so much adrenaline running, and had no idea what a marker felt like when it shot, that I went half a day happily pulling the trigger and not realizing the gun wasn't shooting because I hadn't cocked it.
Solution: Have a single ref take the two or three new players each day off to a small, simple course, perhaps the speedball field if it is not in use, for their first game to teach them the basics, before throwing them to the wolves. Show them how to shoot, how to chrono, and let them play a short game with each other to get them past the fear of getting hit.

[Frizzle Fry]

1) Have somebody hang out around the chronograph / staging area. Whether it's a ref who's not on the field, a tech who's not "teching" at the moment, or even just a regular you can toss a couple bucks / provide free entry who's trustworthy. Everything from pods to markers tend to "walk away" even at the best of fields and it can ruin both the field and the sports reputation. Maybe even designate tables to groups?

2) If you are a "field paint only" business, offer a variety! Some people can't afford marked-up Marbalizer at $75 a case, and many players HATE being forced to use cheapo "field paint" and will pay for better if it's available. I can't count the # of times that I've asked my teammates if they want to play rec ball at different field, and they back out after discovering it's "field paint only", especially if cases are over $70 or are a cheap brand like RPS Field or ZAP.

3) Be careful who you hire! Arrogant or lazy referees and employees make a field undesirable, especially younger guys. I'm not saying that being 14-24 makes a person a bad employee, but as an older player who's been in the game for a while, I personally HATE being talked down to by young guys who don't know what they're talking about or are drunk with power... New players won't like being screamed at for not having barrel bags on unaired markers, they're much more responsive to being taught respectfully. I see guys at the field all the time sitting on their butts hollering angrily at people in staging areas rather than walking over and explaining calmly.

4) Don't throw "renters" in to play all willy-nilly. If you've got 10 guys with DM8s, don't line them up against 14 teenage renters with Spyders. The marker doesn't make the player, but nasty combinations of skill levels and rates-of-fire will lead to off-field conflict and disappointment all. Renters who are new to the game don't like paying $100+ a day to be slaughtered by superior players with superior markers, and serious players don't like paying field fees to play less-than-challenging games against whole teams of "newbies".

Edited to Add:

5) Don't assume your patrons are morons. Give players "the chat" (i.e. gun safety, tank safety, respect, game rules) but if somebody walks in and knows what they're doing, incessant pestering gets really old really fast... Many players know their own markers and don't need simplistic peanut-gallery commentary like "Do you know what macroline is? It's better!" or "An autococker is an old marker, you should get a real one" or even the common "That's an c02 tank, so don't fill it with HPA!" Unless you're in the pro-shop, you're not selling anything, and if somebody has an older setup and knows what they're doing, they probably know what they're doing...

[Old School 626]

...
3) Be careful who you hire! Arrogant or lazy referees and employees make a field undesirable, especially younger guys. I'm not saying that being 14-24 makes a person a bad employee, but as an older player who's been in the game for a while, I personally HATE being talked down to by young guys who don't know what they're talking about or are drunk with power... New players won't like being screamed at for not having barrel bags on unaired markers, they're much more responsive to being taught respectfully. I see guys at the field all the time sitting on their butts hollering angrily at people in staging areas rather than walking over and explaining calmly.

....

You've hit the nail on the head right here.

Add in to be better organized and don't waste people's time and you'd have a fantastic start to a successful field.

[Toll]

Sit people who break the rules.

Explain clearly, thuroughly and calmly the rules before the day starts. If some one breaks something major (condom off in the staging area, mask off on field, being a dick, etc) explain to them what happened and sit them for a game. This atleast lets them know that the rules aren't just there for show.

Have some one watch the entrance

Our shack guy (basically head ref) can see everyone as they walk in from play and can pre-emptively keep them from doing something stupid like popping their gogs before they are supposed to/not putting the bag on. Generally speaking just a reminder but since they know some one is watching they tend to mind it all the more.

Refs get shot

It happens. Why? because if a ref goes through the entire day without getting shot they aren't doing their job properly. If you have refs who really hate getting shot by accident/just where they are they probably arent making calls they should be or watching closely enough. This ofcourse doesnt apply everywhere but if I see a ref hanging 30 feet back making calls from behind a bunker I'm inclined to question the call.

[OPBN]

1. Make sure the refs keep games moving.

A. Put time limits on certain types of games that end in stand offs. Nothing is more boring than getting popped on a lucky shot 1 minute into a game and sitting on the sidelines for 15 more while all the newbs hang out behind bunkers 100 feet apart never advancing and never getting out.
B. Don't spend 15 minutes letting players relive the glory of a game that lasted 2 minutes. I went to a field ONCE where the ref loved the sound of his voice and spent valuable time sharing it with us rather than getting everyone back onto the field. I go to play paintball, not to listen to some dufus regail us in his BS stories.
C. Tell people before each game that they need to be prepared for at least two games, so bring enough paint/air.. whatever. If after the first game, they aren't prepared, redistribute the teams and let the onese that are, play a small side game.

[warpfeedmod]

I've become a "regular" at the field I play at, mainly having played there for the past 11 years, and getting to know the owner on a personal basis. The refs know me and my friends whom come to play usually 4-5 times a season.

Educate the refs that even though there might be regulars/friends/pro players intermixed with walk-ons and pubs, they should NOT help out either side by offering advice/telling locations of other players, etc.

Part of the fun and draw of this sport is thrill of the hunt, don't take that away by giving away player positions or help.

I can't tell you how many times I tell refs to get the hell away when im playing, I don't want to know where the other team is hiding or where they think I should go or whatever...

[Ninjeff]

I have created this thread in hopes of attracting constructive criticism of the sport of paintball in general. Feel free to offer new rules suggestions, mention issues you see at the majority of fields you play at, or ways of doing things that stand out as especially good, etc.

In other words, what about the game, which can be affected by a field or shop owner, could be changed to attract more players to their field?

My own:

1) Don't start so early! Some of us work the night shift, and others are plain lazy. And on Sundays, we have church in the morning. Example: my local field starts the first game at 9am. It takes me 1hr and 15 min. to get there, and about an hour and a half prior to leaving to eat breakfast, change, load my gear into the car, round up all my friends, half of whom are still asleep. All-in-all, I have to wake up at 5 am, after getting off work at midnight the night before, and since my friends did not wake up, we will still be late, but have to pay the same entry fee as everyone else.
Solution: Start at 11 am, or even noon, and run until an hour before sunset or so. Or, offer straggler discounts so players don't just give up on showing up at all, just because they've missed half the day.

2) Play something new for each game: playing capture the flag from each side on three different fields gets old.
Solution: Mix up the game styles, ask for volunteers to play 'VIP', or play '1776': make all the players leave their hoppers off the field, and single load their guns only. A paintball in flight is a very accurate simulation of an old style musket ball's flight. I would love to try a game of 'supply lines' some time, where players can bring all the paint they want to the field, even still in the case, but can only carry one pod in play. The rest is set along the rear tape line. Any player can run to the rear tapeline to refill or swap their one pod as many times as they want, or designate a 'runner' to refill/swap it for them. A center base is setup, which either team can capture, allowing them to move all their paint up to that position, in an area labeled in their team's color, but if it is captured by the other team, the former owners have to leave it there, until/if they take the base over again. The end goal is still classic capture the flag, however, and the flag stations are somewhat separate from the rear tapeline, making it possible to clinch a game by cutting off the other team's supply lines. The game style would integrate a bit of a 'scenario' feel to classic capture the flag, and also encourage teamwork, since pushing forward too far alone will cut you off from your supply lines. The need to head to the rear to resupply, or wait for a runner to deliver more paint will require a more strategic thought process, and allow a weakened team to turn the tables if the stronger team overextends itself.

3) Provide a 'bunny hill'. Being new to paintball was scary enough when the other team only shot 5-8 shots per second max. Getting bunkered by an 18 bps electro is enough to convince a new player to never come back. My first game ever, I had so much adrenaline running, and had no idea what a marker felt like when it shot, that I went half a day happily pulling the trigger and not realizing the gun wasn't shooting because I hadn't cocked it.
Solution: Have a single ref take the two or three new players each day off to a small, simple course, perhaps the speedball field if it is not in use, for their first game to teach them the basics, before throwing them to the wolves. Show them how to shoot, how to chrono, and let them play a short game with each other to get them past the fear of getting hit.

Im going to reply with reasons why some of these dont work, or, at least, are not implemented. But, i think your heart is in the right place:

1: Good suggestion. Unfortunately, the opposite is also true. A lot of groups we get are, for example, bachelor parties. Often, they like to start early and leave early afternoon, so they still have plenty of daylight left to go do what they want. A lot of other groups do that also. Dont get me wrong, i hate waking up at 7 on a saturday to be at work by 7:30. Its a second job for me, i'd love to sleep in. Still there is a balance to be had, and dont forget, refs have to stay after the crowd leaves and clean everything. That can take us 2+ hours sometimes. But, again, i see your point, but it goes both ways.

2:Problem with multiple games is confusion. The more complicated the game, the more time it takes to explain, the more questions we get, the longer it takes, the more upset someone gets when they don't quite understand the rules and lose because of it....etc etc.

That being said, i do like to experiment with new games when reffing a lot of regulars, or people with experience. I enjoy variation while reffing too, but with new players their main concern is often just the act of playing paintball. Plus, everyone knows capture the flag, and it gives us refs a focal point to the game, which makes it easier to keep everyone safe. But the bets rule is to take it group by group. If i have 20 guys who might be new, but seem together enough to get some new rules, i'll play any game they can come up with. (within reason)

3: I agree, thats why we have rules like the 20 foot rule. You cant shoot any opposing player within 20 feet. Cuts down on scary stuff, welts, overly aggressive moves, and things of that nature. Thats also why us refs monitor RoF very closely. Ive removed folks from games who couldnt go without their precious ramping. Hey, no kid wants to get blasted, no adult either. The new players are there to have fun...if you cant have fun without your space gun on full auto, then you should find some other time to play.

[Ninjeff]

1) Have somebody hang out around the chronograph / staging area. Whether it's a ref who's not on the field, a tech who's not "teching" at the moment, or even just a regular you can toss a couple bucks / provide free entry who's trustworthy. Everything from pods to markers tend to "walk away" even at the best of fields and it can ruin both the field and the sports reputation. Maybe even designate tables to groups?

2) If you are a "field paint only" business, offer a variety! Some people can't afford marked-up Marbalizer at $75 a case, and many players HATE being forced to use cheapo "field paint" and will pay for better if it's available. I can't count the # of times that I've asked my teammates if they want to play rec ball at different field, and they back out after discovering it's "field paint only", especially if cases are over $70 or are a cheap brand like RPS Field or ZAP.

3) Be careful who you hire! Arrogant or lazy referees and employees make a field undesirable, especially younger guys. I'm not saying that being 14-24 makes a person a bad employee, but as an older player who's been in the game for a while, I personally HATE being talked down to by young guys who don't know what they're talking about or are drunk with power... New players won't like being screamed at for not having barrel bags on unaired markers, they're much more responsive to being taught respectfully. I see guys at the field all the time sitting on their butts hollering angrily at people in staging areas rather than walking over and explaining calmly.

4) Don't throw "renters" in to play all willy-nilly. If you've got 10 guys with DM8s, don't line them up against 14 teenage renters with Spyders. The marker doesn't make the player, but nasty combinations of skill levels and rates-of-fire will lead to off-field conflict and disappointment all. Renters who are new to the game don't like paying $100+ a day to be slaughtered by superior players with superior markers, and serious players don't like paying field fees to play less-than-challenging games against whole teams of "newbies".

Edited to Add:

5) Don't assume your patrons are morons. Give players "the chat" (i.e. gun safety, tank safety, respect, game rules) but if somebody walks in and knows what they're doing, incessant pestering gets really old really fast... Many players know their own markers and don't need simplistic peanut-gallery commentary like "Do you know what macroline is? It's better!" or "An autococker is an old marker, you should get a real one" or even the common "That's an c02 tank, so don't fill it with HPA!" Unless you're in the pro-shop, you're not selling anything, and if somebody has an older setup and knows what they're doing, they probably know what they're doing...

again, just some insight from the other side of the game......(and also, it should be noted, that these are addressed for first time players....as they are the biggest source of revenue)

1:Actually, that's a fantastic idea.

2:Variety would be nice, but most owners are "small time" and it costs big to carry a wide variety of paint. Not to mention housing it all, and keeping it good. (fresh) Obviously, this can scale depending on whats going on. My field hosts SPE every year, and we do try and carry mulitple kinds for that kind of event. However, for the day to day it is far more economical to carry one mid range kind of paint.

3: Again, COMPLETELY AGREE. When i started becoming a regular at my field some years ago, the reffing staff left a lot to be desired. The owner weeded them out though, hired good ones (or so i like to think ) and things have gotten a lot better.
That being said, what is also annoying is having your authority undermined by some random know-it-all player who thinks he is king turd of poop village because he's been playing a few years. I know at my field, we have rules for a reason, and i will NOT have my authority undermined in front of the new players because you (not YOU specifically) think you know more than i do.
As nice as it would be to be able to meander up to some player and explain calmly why he or she needs a barrel sock, it only takes ONE SPLIT SECOND for them to pull the trigger and put out someones eye. Now how great would that be for the field. My new players are told no less than 5 times a GAME about the barrel sock rule. (once when going one the field....once when shot out.....once when walking off the field......and once when crossing through the net.) not to mention they are explained why we use them when they get a safety briefing in the AM. If they cant get it together by THEN, then they deserved to be yelled at. If it hurts thier feelings, well, too bad.
Good example is just two weeks ago, i turned around to find some one who was returning from the chrono range and forgot the barrel sock. I caught them hollered (in a nice but firm manner) to put the sock on....she looked at me and said "Well, i just shot all my bullets...i dont need it" i said "yes you do!" and hustled the 25 feet or so to her position. "Its out of ammo!" she says, "Well, we still need it on there in case" and i gently moved her barrel down as it was pointing face level towards the staging area. I grabbed a spare one out of my pocket to put on it, and sure enough, BLAM! Point blank range (and i mean point blank, the barrel was on my skin) she shot me in the arm. turns out there was one round left. POint blank. It hurt. I was bleeding pretty bad, and had to dig shell out of my arm. Still, i just informed her, calmly as i could, to hand me the gun, and go have a seat for a second. I still have some numbness there. Go shoot the underside of your forearm point-blank and tell me how you feel. It hurts!
Im just glad it was me, and not someone else she shot.

Point is, safety is NOTHING to be taken lightly. We take it seriously, and if that hurts someones feelings, well, its a lot better than hurting some ones body. IMO.

4: No arguments there. Its tough sometimes as the guys with DM8s paind just as much $$$ as the newbies, and sometimes there isnt enough skill level folks to spread around. 98% of the time the seasoned players are very accomodating with taking it easy on the new folks. Alot of them will run around crazy like, play really loose, or are like me, and will let Johny the birthday boy use their kit while i use a rental.

5: Unfortunately, we have to sometimes cover things a million times. Some people just dont get it.



******Note: just so you know, I am 29 years old, been playing over 12 years, and have reffed at various fields for 10 years. I ref every saturday and sunday, of every weekend the entire season. So, Dont think im just some punk kid.

[Frizzle Fry]

******Note: just so you know, I am 29 years old, been playing over 12 years, and have reffed at various fields for 10 years. I ref every saturday and sunday, of every weekend the entire season. So, Dont think im just some punk kid.

I'm in almost the exact same "range" save for the fact that I haven't reffed in a year or so. I agree with all your counter points; my thing about the yelling was more geared towards the guy sitting on a pallet of paint thumbing through a magazine and shouting obscenities at passersby because their unaired, hopperless and barreless marker doesn't have a barrel condom (where would it go?).

People who aren't careful with their markers piss me off though... Every player at a "good" field gets the safety info drilled into them before playing. I mean, there's a safety, a barrel condom, an on/off on the tank, and an off switch on many markers and hoppers. All can and should be used, but just 1 or 2 can avert an accident


As for $5, I'm more concerned about the "Sales Pitch" than the safety issues. I know my Micromag is over a decade old, and I know that there are alternatives to braided steel gaslines, and I know that my RevvyX isn't as fast as a $120 Torque loader... It's also faster than that Invert Mini and it chops less... It's more the "talking down" about gear that bugs me. I spent $600+ on my MicroEmag, if I wanted a $400 used Ego I would have bought one instead.

[Sumthinwicked]

i own a micro and a mini tell me how a micro is faster ? besides that most points above are good ones

[caylegeorge]

Chrono every player before every game. It's faster than some may think.

After moving to the northwest it baffled me that no one here does this.


-cAyle

[GoatBoy]

You know this thread officially jumped the shark when people start talking about their own equipment. Guys, nobody cares.


Anyways. My own list of things:

1. Semi-auto means semi-auto. If the jersey wearing prima donnas have to turn off the ramping and 3-shot, then the camo wearing LARPers have to turn down their reactive triggers as well. If it can't be tuned out of the gun, then they either get another gun or they go home.

2. Maintain the damn rental guns. This is the single most common source of problems on the field. It's sad that nobody so far has mentioned this. Too many fields do not keep their rentals in good working order. You want to make money, right? You make money selling paint, right? How do you expect to sell more paint if the rentals won't shoot?

3. Use a scale when filling CO2. Lots of places don't use a scale. Measure the tanks empty, post the weight somewhere where the employees can see, or write it directly on the tank itself, and then USE AN ACTUAL SCALE TO FILL THE TANKS. Half the rental gun problems are related to people running out of air because their tanks weren't filled properly in the first place. Can't shoot paint without air, can you?

4. Keep the games rolling. This has been mentioned. Do not wait for the people shooting the breeze in the staging area to get their acts together. The games should run like clockwork. How do you expect people to use paint and buy more if they're not even playing?

5. Refs need to learn how to randomize teams quickly. Too many times you step out onto the field, and the teams haven't divided and people are too reticent to organize themselves. I typically randomize based on binary criteria such as even/odd birth day, birth year, birth month, etc. After the initial sort, then I swap a few players if things need to be evened out. If they get tired of my hegemony, then they wise up and organize themselves and the problem solves itself.

6. Chrono guns every time you walk out onto the field.

7. Speaking of which... Chrono procedure should be walk up and take three shots. If you need to make adjustments, GO STRAIGHT TO THE BACK OF THE LINE LIKE THE DUNCE YOU ARE and let others take their shots while you screw around with your janked out gun. This makes chrono'ing MUCH faster if people aren't waiting for one idiot to adjust his gun.

8. Staging areas need tables.

9. No shooting, including dry-firing, in staging area should be strictly enforced.

10. Field staff should be carrying a walkie talkie and a chrono.

11. Clean the damn bathrooms. When you really have to take a Count Dooku, you hope that the nearest hole in the ground isn't a Sarlacc pit monster.

12. I'm a big fan of armbands/tape to signify teams.

[Ravenneon]

I have a game suggestion that I actually played at a field about 6 or 7 years ago. I actually suggested this game last year and all the refs there had now idea about this game. Its called "Unknown Soldier" - The refs start by taking us to the middle of the field and line us up all facing the same direction - with our hands behind our back the refs hand out at random two different color armbands and we can't look. Once all armbands are handed out the ref will blow the whistle to start players running - now the players can run anywhere but you have to be careful because the ref will blow the whistle again about 10 to 15 secs after the first - now you can look at ur armband - now all players are spread out and mixed - the objective of the game is total elimination - now you have the task of trying to find ur team mates as well as avoiding the opponents. Sometimes u will find ur self next to someone friendly other times ur in the fight of ur life

Personally i love this game cause this is a true test of skill.

[Frizzle Fry]

i own a micro and a mini tell me how a micro is faster ? besides that most points above are good ones

I own 6 Micros (including the one that should be coming from Tracy soon...) and they've all got or will soon have X-valves installed. My PneuMicro and MicroE consistently outstripped my Gen1 Mini as far as ROF is concerned (semi) so I sold the thing (which I regret) to buy another set of eMag lowers. A stock Micromag with a classic or R/T Pro valve and a standard frame obviously wouldn't be able to keep up.

[dreadpirate]

3: I agree, thats why we have rules like the 20 foot rule. You cant shoot any opposing player within 20 feet. Cuts down on scary stuff, welts, overly aggressive moves, and things of that nature. Thats also why us refs monitor RoF very closely. Ive removed folks from games who couldnt go without their precious ramping. Hey, no kid wants to get blasted, no adult either. The new players are there to have fun...if you cant have fun without your space gun on full auto, then you should find some other time to play.

Around here, they have the 'Rambo' rule: in a situation where you might otherwise bunker another player, you run up and bang on the other side of the bunker and yell 'Rambo!' instead, and the person on the other side is out.

I recall when Hellsurvivors was my normal field before I left Michigan, they had enough players and refs to run a 'limited' class, restricted to mechanical, CO2 guns only, and an 'unlimited' class for everyone else. It tended to make it a bit less intimidating for new players, but I'm sure the cost of that many refs contributed to them removing that way of doing things.