markerbids.com

[stevewar]

Ok Mike,

First of all, I am a customer @ markerbids. I've followed along several auctions for at least a month trying to understand the entire system. The day I wrote that penny bids are legit post was the day I signed up on your site; I did so because I like your techpb videos. I hadn't purchased any bids because your site is VERY buggy, and often unreachable. Once I was familiar with some of the issues, I decided to try bidding on the DM-12. That's when I noticed the auto bid system placing bids at the EXACT same interval over and over again. That's what caused me to search for the bid history logs, and that's why this issue came into question. Also, if you noticed, my public conversation here on AO was inquisitive. My personal email to you stated that the over bidding was suspicious, and if your explanation was lacking, I would consider legal action. I may have only wasted 15 dollars bidding on your website, but that doesn't mean it's not worth pursuing for other people who have, or who might be, ripped off.

Now let's be clear about something; I'm not trying to promote my own business. Sans the fact that your website doesn't get that much traffic, and is next to worthless in SEO terms, you will see, in fact andQUITE CLEARLY that I shut down energiefitness due to antiquated internet policies.

The only lawsuit I threatened was if you couldn't provide any reasonable evidence that these bidders weren't shills. Your answer for them paying over 200% of retail value for a marker was "reputation" on your website. I again gave you the opportunity to provide a way for me to validate these users were real, and you declined. I then investigated the VERY suspicisous bidding activity going on with the DM 12, and to related that data with other auctions in which CrewNYC and KiaBuckets were involved head to head. In EVERY auction these two go head to head, they pay over 150% of retail value for the item being auctioned. It seems to me these guys would know each other well enough to understand that they are "serious" bidders. Your entire argument is hogwash.

Kiabuckets has a Youtube channel, check it out here-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51xUdHOjObU

CrewNYC has a Youtube Channel, check it out here-

http://www.youtube.com/user/CrewNYC

kiabuckets name is Keith, and he lives in Alberta, Canada. CrewNYC's name is Chris, and he lives in New York. All of their bids and bid packs are accounted for through paypal.

I have multiple paypal accounts and youtube channels, and I even sans that, how does that disprove that these guys could have a partnership with you?

With regards to Arbonne, I see you could use a little nutritional help yourself Mike. Instead of opening your very large mouth and inserting your very large foot, maybe you should READ a little.

I think Steve Warshaw has let the fumes of that Arbonne he's been hocking get to his head. He claims he's going to "pwn" the website with a lawsuit. I'm definitely looking forward to meeting (and thanking) Chris & Keith in person at the court hearing.

Steve is looking to either "self promote" his personal training business, his software consulting business, or his arbonne business by attempting to attack my site under the threat of a lawsuit.

We'll see how much "pwn'ing" is done when we all show up with our paypal receipts, matching bank records, and corresponding bids used.

The only thing more fun than being sued... is counter-sueing! I apologize to the mods in advance for this nonsense that Steve has decided to vomit on your forums. I'm not here to sell Markerbids to anyone, just defending it against someone who woke up yesterday and has taken on a desperate agenda to use my company to hopefully promote his own.

Actually no mike, what I'm trying to do is figure out if I, and other decent people are being ripped off. I don't need to promote my side businesses, they're just hobbies. Your site doesn't get enough traffic to make 1 bit off difference for them anyway.

I have indeed contacted the BBB and my IP attorney to find out of this matter is worth investigating. It is likely that your business doesn't have enough value to be worth suing. However, if my own personal investigating of your publicly available data continues to show VERY suspicious activity, am I going to call it out.

If you want man up, and actually provide the evidence I asked for originally, you could have your developer call me directly. That's a fairly simple and free (or almost free) solution.

[stevewar]

zero, and what profits?

there is no money in paintball dude, anyone who produces anything in this sport knows it and can tell you that.

Penny auctions, if legit, are MASSIVELY profitable, in terms of percentage...As of this point, the minimum income for the DM-12 auction is around $6160. That's an INCREDIBLE margin for any business

[Frizzle Fry]

zero, and what profits?

there is no money in paintball dude, anyone who produces anything in this sport knows it and can tell you that.

That's a pretty broad generalization. Some of us actually work in the industry (or have worked in the industry) in a capacity somewhat greater making snarky comments about it on Youtube and playing scientist in our backyard. Granted startups are tough, but online retail has become the best way to make a profit in paintball, and it becomes even easier when people have to pay you for the right to walk into your store (never mind the products they purchase). You don't have to make a lot of money to be making money.

If Markerbids.com isn't yet and will never be profitable, then why is Mike defending his choice to not allow his site to be audited claiming worries over the theft of his customer base and technology? I've dealt with forums - the advertising on TechPB is more than adequate to cover the costs of maintaining the site (both software and hosting), and with moderators and "staff" essentially donating their time for just the privilege of position there's no need to worry about man hours - hell people line up to work for free.

You can say what you want, but it doesn't change the way Mike has behaved in the past towards other members of the paintball community, and sadly many of his supporters and apparently customers too. So yeah, he's not someone you should do business with, nor is he someone you should trust or try to "help".

Penny auctions, if legit, are MASSIVELY profitable, in terms of percentage...As of this point, the minimum income for the DM-12 auction is around $6160. That's an INCREDIBLE margin for any business

Don't mind Cockerpunk, he's always right.

[stevewar]

Don't mind Cockerpunk, he's always right.

Let me be clear here. I really do like the videos mike makes. I really did want him to produce some kind of reasonable evidence such that I could continue using the site with confidence.

I did make a mistake in threatening legal action. I was pissed off because I was, and am still, fairly certain I was being ripped off. For that I apologize.

That said, mike keeps saying that he has paypal receipts, back records, and bid history to back him up. I only wish, for his sake, that those pieces of evidence actually prove that there is no fraud involved. Mike, have you ever heard of collusion?

The simple way to clear yourself here mike is to let an independent party, me or somebody else with software engineering experience including PHP, SQL, etc. to inspect the code, and the apache logs. I don't even need to see the private customer data.

Your excuse about stealing code is ridiculous. First of all, there are free penny auction platforms available all over the internet, and second, anything you have on your site I could recreate without seeing your code anyway.

[DevilMan]

Stealing code? Really? I guess someone never got over Angelina from back in the crash and burn days.

Like making/maintaining/operating a website takes rocket science these days.

Please...

DM

[tigar19]

At first I was under the impression that an innocent question was being asked about markerbids.com and Mike Phillips.

Now it is clear to me that this thread is tied to some personal vendetta and the inncoent question was just a cover.

I'm done with the politics. Paintball is my hobby and I prefer to keep it as a relaxing hobby.

[StygShore]

Is it possible the users who are racking up these bids are using somethign like Bid sniper program like they make for Ebay that autobids for them? So they are doing something outside the Markerbids.com programming all together?

Not defending the plauers, just throwing another option out there for the shady bidding practices?


I thought they were shutting down all the penny auction sites a while back, but some new law must have passed becasue I am seeing adds on TV for this crap as well.

If I am understanidng, you are paying money per Bid, not for your bid amount... so if something is $23.00 and you put in a bid that cost you $1.00 the bid will go up to $23.01 right?


Styg

[cockerpunk]

Penny auctions, if legit, are MASSIVELY profitable, in terms of percentage...As of this point, the minimum income for the DM-12 auction is around $6160. That's an INCREDIBLE margin for any business

and all that money (which isn't that much anyway, you see stuff go for under its cost quite often) goes right back into keeping techpb going.

i can't produce any evidence, as i have no offical affilation with markerbids. all i can say, is that mike is not luaghing all the way to the bank with techpb, or markerbids. and it is more then obvious that mike is not involved in paintball to make money on it. he is here cause he loves paintball more then anyonei have ever known. markerbids is a method to pay for things mike wants to do with techpb and paintball in general.

fizzle said mike only cares about money, i merely wanted to correct that.

[cockerpunk]

Is it possible the users who are racking up these bids are using somethign like Bid sniper program like they make for Ebay that autobids for them? So they are doing something outside the Markerbids.com programming all together?

Not defending the plauers, just throwing another option out there for the shady bidding practices?


I thought they were shutting down all the penny auction sites a while back, but some new law must have passed becasue I am seeing adds on TV for this crap as well.

If I am understanidng, you are paying money per Bid, not for your bid amount... so if something is $23.00 and you put in a bid that cost you $1.00 the bid will go up to $23.01 right?


Styg

i would assume bid sniping is an effective strategy

[shooter311]

Is it possible the users who are racking up these bids are using somethign like Bid sniper program like they make for Ebay that autobids for them? So they are doing something outside the Markerbids.com programming all together?

I think it is just the point that CrewNYC bid 4574 times on this marker, and Kiabuckets bid 3045 times (That's $5,333 those two spent on a marker they didn't even come close to winning. *assuming they are paying $.70 per bid). That just seems odd for experienced bidders, plus that they were bidding on it when it was at $.01, 3 days before the auction end. I think experienced bidders would know that is throwing money away. The only time to bid, is at the auction end, otherwise you would never win, there is always someone that bids at the auction end, and I am guessing there has never been a winner that won on the bid for first cent.


I am not taking sides, just trying to clear up the point being made. It is odd behavior, but I think people should know what they are getting into when investing money. I would rather invest money into marker bids than scratch off tickets (at least there is somewhat of a chance of winning something on MB).

[tigar19]

i would assume bid sniping is an effective strategy

The fact that each bid adds time to the countdown clock makes bid sniping ineffective. The way to win is to out bid the other bidders. There are strategies to accomplish this, but trying to place a bid at the last possible second does not guarantee a win.

[DevilMan]

Correct! Bid Sniping is irrelevant. When someone bids, it adds time to the clock. Much like a REAL auction works. When you pony up that you'll pay more than the other guy, the other guy gets a chance to counter. I really wish Ebay was that way. Well when I'm selling stuff anyway!

If 5 people wait until the end of the auction and bid within the last 4 seconds, then it will add X amount of time to the clock. Some sites are different times so I can't say for certain what the times are, but say it's 30 seconds per bid, then it just added 2.5 minutes to the clock. Some sites I know it would only ad the 30 seconds for the first bid and then like 10 seconds for each bid after that. But the thing is, if you are there to bid, you can run the auction out for days. One of the things about the sites. If you can't be there for the duration of it, then you may want to pass.

But yes, tossing X number of bids that equates to real money that is way above and beyond the value of something that you could go to the highest priced store and pay full retail and give a healthy tip to the sales clerk is not something that too many people do. Especially people in this sport and in this economy.

So no CP. Bid Sniping is a moot point. And if there was no money to be made in PB then this sport wouldn't be this old. Period! Making some money is better than making no money and NO sport/company/business/etc survives by constantly losing money. Breaking even and having your bills all paid and mouths all fed and is still making money.

DM

[tigar19]

^^^The whole point behind the autobidder option is so you do no have to sit in front of your computer the entire time. You establish the maximum amount of bids, turn on autobidder, and go to sleep. The autobidder will continue to place a bid for you during the final 30 seconds until it has reached your set max.

There is a great section in the site's Forum about the different strategies that may make some sense of what you're seeing and calling suspicious. I suggest you read this. LINK

[shooter311]

^^^The whole point behind the autobidder option is so you do no have to sit in front of your computer the entire time. You establish the maximum amount of bids, turn on autobidder, and go to sleep. The autobidder will continue to place a bid for you during the final 30 seconds until it has reached your set max.

There is a great section in the site's Forum about the different strategies that may make some sense of what you're seeing and calling suspicious. I suggest you read this. LINK

If you look at the bid history though, they were bidding up the item days before its end. Crew NYC bid over 4,500 worth before the final day of the auction. This is not sniping because it was not used during the end of the auction. I could invest a million dollars in the first day then a person with 1 bid could win it at the end of the auction.

[stevewar]

i would assume bid sniping is an effective strategy

Actually for penny auctions, there is no way to snipe. Unlike EBay, whose auctions have a definitive ending, penny auctions can continue on into infinity.

The thing that makes your bid timing interesting is the psychology of bidding against a LIVE user or a live person watching their, not somebody using the autobid system. If you are head to head with a live person, there are some psychological games that can be played with your bid timing. One such method is the bully method (or call it whatever you want) where everytime a person bids, you immediately outbid them. If you're resolute, this method can be very discouraging to the person bidding against you.

In terms of the autobid system, the thing to do is wait until there is less time to bid. That's why having an autobidder that bids at the exact same time is ludicrous. The markerbids autobid system apparently always waits 18 seconds from the last bid, and at least on the DM auction, the count down timer always started at 34 seconds. As a live bidder, all you would have to do is wait for the timer to get down to 10, and you'd know you weren't bidding against the autobid system.

Of course the problem is "people" like KiaBuckets and CrewNYC apparently set their maximum bid price to be insanely high, and they don't care how much money they spend on bids (or Mike doles them out free or cheaper bids than anyone else can purchase). This allows the bid wars to go on automatic for literally days.

The funny thing about this design is that it would take me less than an hour to write a script that simply captured the count down timer, and notified me when it got below the threshold, and then manually bid against them. That way, a user could live their life, and still easily win auctions against these "people" who waste insane amounts of money on their autobidder. Of course, having an intelligent autobid system that varied the bid timing would make this much harder, which is why I asserted that these "people" are not actually using the autobid system. If I'm wrong, then the developer Mike hired to write his autobid system is seriously incapable.