"Batteries Not Included" - Exploring the feasibility of a pneumatic hopper

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  • Patron God of Pirates
    ~pgop1.0
    • Apr 2002
    • 1196

    #1

    "Batteries Not Included" - Exploring the feasibility of a pneumatic hopper

    (if you would like to skip the preamble and get right to the idea scroll down to "#IDEA:")

    One of the big reasons I am a Mag guy is that I hate batteries but love high rates of fire. When I got my RT Pro I was thrilled to fire short burst of rapid fire that competed with and often out ran the elctro's of the day. I was not thrilled that they occasionally became short burst of chopping.

    Apparently I needed a "agitating" hopper. This meant batteries and I was not pleased. I sucked it up and got myself a revy. The chopping problem was marginalized but not eliminated. So I won myself a Warp. More batteries, new set of problems. The vibration sensor (IMHO) was inadequate. So I got myself an Inteliframe and set up the "intelifeed". I found it "intelinadequate". So rigged a small external button to the thumb side of my grip frame and ran the warp manually.

    This worked great but prevented me from using my preferred firing method: "Super Street Fighter 2 Button Jamming".

    Finally I got a HALO and LV10 and my chopping issues were a thing of the past. Then I had a Baby and got married and left the HALO in a box for a couple of years. The batteries corroded and rendered the internals inoperable.

    When I came back to paintball the electros now thoroughly outpaced my RTP. Through a variety of electronic trickery that IMHO is just good old fashioned cheating (I have no intention of starting a flame war on this subject. My opinion on the matter is rooted in 10 years of experience and I am highly unlikely to change it). The resulting rates of fire were sufficient to change "Speed Ball" (my preferred game) into "Slow Ball" by locking down the field of play. I still had a good deal of success using my all or nothing approach.

    Still when the opportunity presented itself to up my ROF with pneumatics I jumped at it. Since then I have been playing with a pRTP being fed by a HALO B.

    An old friend of mine shoots an A-5 and I'm a big fan of the cyclone feed. Not so much it's proprietary nature. I'm also a big fan of the Q-Loader. Not so much of the prep time and smallish payload. But I remain in love with the idea of a completely mechanical system that can compete with electro ROF using no batteries at all.

    which brings me to,
    #IDEA:
    Replace the batteries and motor in a HALO,Warp,etc. with one of these:
    Miniature Air Motors, Miniature Air Drills All Air Incorporated offers Micro Motors, Inc. (Pro-Dex) a manufacturer of miniature air motors, miniature air drills, reversible units, high quality, wide range of RPM's, dental drills, air generated light sources, and customized products. Their


    I'm not any kind of an air smith so I brought the idea here. In my mind this would work one of two ways:

    1) On a pneuMag (or equivalent) with a second (or split) air line to power the motor.
    or
    2) By installing an LPR with it's own air supply into the hopper. You'd then need another air switch. I picture this being at the hopper-side mouth of the feedneck where it would be activated by balls dropping when the marker is fired.

    I imaging #1 would be easier to accomplish. #2 however would work with any marker.

    On to the questions:

    Air Smiths:
    a) Can this be done?
    b) By you?
    c) Will you try if I supply the components?

    Everyone Else:
    a) Does this sound interesting?
    b) Would you buy it?
    b2) For how much?

    Thanks to everyone for reading and please take the time to respond. And please be constructive,
    Patron
  • my automag
    mag#1
    • Oct 2007
    • 415

    #2
    Beautiful idea.

    I pondered about something like this too around the "pneumag thing time", using a "RAM" idea.

    Verry neat, and keep at it, definatelly something possible.

    I would be interested depending on the consumption of air and expense for sure.

    D.K.

    Comment

    • Carnage reigns
      New Age Mag Man
      • Apr 2007
      • 787

      #3
      Very good idea of done correctly. Could be a game changer. I will keep an eye out for this thread.
      sigpic

      Comment

      • Justus
        Justech.us

        • Nov 2010
        • 1515

        #4
        This has already been done, hasn't it? By a major paintball marker manufacturing company?

        Tippmann. The Cyclone feed system on the A5 and X7.

        This isn't a bash of your idea, but just pointing out that the concept is already in practice. If you want to modify the system to work for any marker by constructing it in a drop-from-the-top hopper, I think this is where you start.

        My Feedback Thread

        Comment

        • sQuidvision
          Learning Mag-Fu

          • Jun 2011
          • 823

          #5
          interested? Yes, yes I am! Here is a thread I posted pondering the very same question.

          Paintball Talk is the main forum for Automags.org. Here is where we talk about the sport of paintball in general and make announcements relating to the forum and website.

          Comment

          • Carnage reigns
            New Age Mag Man
            • Apr 2007
            • 787

            #6
            Very good idea of done correctly. Could be a game changer. I will keep an eye out for this thread.
            sigpic

            Comment

            • Patron God of Pirates
              ~pgop1.0
              • Apr 2002
              • 1196

              #7
              Originally posted by Justus
              Tippmann. The Cyclone feed system on the A5 and X7.
              Yes I mentioned that. I'm a big fan of the cyclone feed, but if you want one, you need an A-5 or an X7. Ideally this device/mod would be its own system, not a proprietary part of a marker.

              Comment

              • Henchman
                Registered User
                • Feb 2012
                • 269

                #8
                I would be interested as well.

                Comment

                • captian pinky
                  Bearded Works

                  • Oct 2004
                  • 2755

                  #9
                  Take there system drop it In a halo drive and add a solenoid lpr and air line.

                  Comment

                  • sQuidvision
                    Learning Mag-Fu

                    • Jun 2011
                    • 823

                    #10
                    for Pneumag setups it would be sweet if the air coming off the msv-2 could be routed through the motor first and then to the ram... that would eliminate the need for a second switch and hopefully make the whole thing a touch more efficient. If you paired that up with a rip drive style tray so it could pre-wind the spring powered tray that would be even better! i really like this idea, now you've got my gears tuning again.

                    Comment

                    • OPBN
                      OldPBNoob

                      • Sep 2008
                      • 5240

                      #11
                      Since a system really already exists, what about figuring a way to adapt it to work on other markers. Trying to design a hopper based on the concepts of the Cyclone may get you in trouble with patent infringements. Making the existing system capable of being used on other markers will not.
                      My AO Feedback

                      Comment

                      • Patron God of Pirates
                        ~pgop1.0
                        • Apr 2002
                        • 1196

                        #12
                        Originally posted by OPBN
                        Since a system really already exists, what about figuring a way to adapt it to work on other markers. Trying to design a hopper based on the concepts of the Cyclone may get you in trouble with patent infringements. Making the existing system capable of being used on other markers will not.

                        Again, I'm no air smith, but it seems to me that the cyclone feed system is not very portable to other markers. It turns a wheel using a rod attached directly (I think) to the bolt action.

                        Originally posted by sQuidvision
                        for Pneumag setups it would be sweet if the air coming off the msv-2 could be routed through the motor first and then to the ram... that would eliminate the need for a second switch and hopefully make the whole thing a touch more efficient. If you paired that up with a rip drive style tray so it could pre-wind the spring powered tray that would be even better! i really like this idea, now you've got my gears tuning again.
                        That makes perfect sense. In my imagination that is the way to go. That way the tension would be in when the ball was fired.

                        We need some air smith types to chime in here.

                        Comment

                        • OPBN
                          OldPBNoob

                          • Sep 2008
                          • 5240

                          #13
                          Originally posted by pgop2.0
                          Again, I'm no air smith, but it seems to me that the cyclone feed system is not very portable to other markers. It turns a wheel using a rod attached directly (I think) to the bolt action.
                          Nope. The cylcone is activated from blowback air/gas. Thre is an air fitting on the side that feeds this excess gas into the cylinder that in turn spins the feeder. The rod that comes out of the cylinder can be used to manually turn the feeder, but there is no mechanical tie in to the bolt. Not sure if it could be adapted or not, just playing Devils Advocate. Would hate to see someone go through the paces only to find out they are utilizing patented technology.
                          My AO Feedback

                          Comment

                          • Henchman
                            Registered User
                            • Feb 2012
                            • 269

                            #14
                            You can copy patented technology.
                            You just can't sell it.

                            Comment

                            • kcombs9
                              Registered User
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 908

                              #15
                              I seem to recall someone working on mounting a Cyclone to a Warp feed body, if not I would start there if I was wanting this set up.

                              My self don't want to use up anymore air then I need too...

                              Comment

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