Lack of accuracy is what makes paintball the game it is.

[Patron God of Pirates]

There are thousands of threads all over the interwebs and probably a few hundred here on AO talking about how to get more accuracy out of our friend the paintball. I'm as big an offender as most. I have dozens of barrels, two insert kits, and an APEX tip. A thread here about under boring (which was fascinating but above my pay grade) got me to thinking:

Would dead on balls accurate paintball be any fun?
My answer, no. But that is a matter of personal preference. I happen to like the pulse pounding game of movement, communication, and angle hunting that is paintball. I know allot of folks who started out expecting it to be a game of hiding, creeping, and sniping. Those people spent allot of time alone in the woods way out of range before either getting the hang of real paintball, or quitting.

For me, if that sniper style worked, if you could consistently long ball somebody with a single shot from the edge of paint break range, well that would stink. Every once and awhile I get hit by a long ball from deepest darkest somewhere. It is by far the least satisfying way to get out. I would rather be lit up point blank making a desperate dash for the flag. No matter how "milsim" your marker is, paintball will never effectively "simmil".

What is more exiting?:
Two Hellcats thatch weaving against a Zero. One pilot putting it all on the line so his wing man has a chance to put the Zero in his cross hairs.
or
An F-22 getting a first look, first shot, first kill from over the horizon on some hapless Mig 29.

Sure the later may be cooler. But I would rather watch the former. What say you AO?

[cockerpunk]

i agree. so much of what paintball is, as a game, is a band aide for terrible technology. and going back, we could fix all of those issues, but the game that resulted would be very very very different. the spherical ball is a dumb design. but because we have a lightweight spherical ball, that has very limited range and accuracy, we play on small fields, very close to each other. there is a pretty trainwrecked thread on simonized where i talk about a few more examples, such as vertical feed.

it comes down to, like many things in life, technical perfection vs fun.

[Flatliner333]

I'm with you on this. But each to his own on style of play. Although it wouldnt really bother me if I was sniped out I do prefer a more balls to the wall style of play. I have yet to play any senarios so I have not incountered any snipers or even seen a first strike round. That being said I do like to know who and where I am being shot at from.

[OPBN]

Not totally on topic, but one time I was with a group of guys and we were deciding which way to go during a big game. One of the guys asked me where the opposition was and I pointed with my marker towards a ridge where a path went down to a group of people on the other team. As I pointed, the marker fired a shot and one went perfectly arcing until it pretty much came down in the center of the path of the other side. I started to turn around and talk to the other players with me when someone starts laughing and pointing towards the ridge. Some guy is walking up the ridge with hands up and a big splat of paint in the middle of his mask. Apparently, my errant shot from probably 200 ft away found some unlucky dude and gog'd him as he was getting ready to try and take the ridge. When he got to the top he saw how far way we were and just started shaking his head and walking towards the respawn. Laughed for probably a good 10 minutes on that one.

Regarding accuracy, I agree and disagree. As with any activity, different styles move in and out of fashion to a degree. I actually thought FSR's would have been much more of a game changer than they have been, but they do seem to be getting more of a toehold on things. Do I want to sit around in a ghillie peeing down my leg as I sit in a bunch of brush waiting for the ultimate one shot/one kill? No, as I don't have that sort of patience. But there are definitely days that I get frustrated with watching my shots fly out 60 feet on target to eliminate another player and then do something that borderlines seems to defy physics and shoot off into a direction that I never intended it to go. However, I am not ready to invest $1200+ in a DAM setup shooting $.75/round FSR's either.

[uv_halo]

Since you asked... I disagree.

My heart gets pounding when I successfully, and stealthily flank a group of folks and I one-shot them out, one at a time. This requires accuracy and a bit of distance/noise reduction to prevent alerting other members in the group.

I also enjoy successfully hiding and hitting someone with them not knowing anything about where it came from (effectively slowing down a group).

My favorite elimination:

At Living Legends 4, Not long after the start of a break, an individual wearing jeans, a tank top (maybe not even a pod pack), carrying an A5, and who must have sprinted the majority of the quarter mile distance to get to us (judging by how much earlier he got to us than the rest of his team) stopped at the top of a rise overlooking us and stood there, in the open with his A5 hanging at his side. He appeared to be looking at us in the hyperball field as if he was trying to figrure out which bunker to bump up to or, to wait for the rest of his team. He was fairly far away and I wasn't sure if I could hit him. So, I lined up the sights, applied a fair amount of holdover, and let a first strike round fly. I saw it fly in a trajectory in-line with him and a moment or two later, he suddenly jerked his head downward towards his belly. He then looked over to the ref about 7yrds to his right (maybe to ask if he was out?), before angrily shaking his arms (and A5) turning around and walking back towards his base.

I could care less how my game play looks to other people. It's all about the relationship between myself and my opposition.

[nak81783]

I don't think more accuracy would change the game at all, therefore I don't care if it ever comes about, nor would I be willing to pay more for more accuracy than I have now.

The reason I don't think accuracy would change the game is because firearms are way more accurate than paintball guns, and the shots hit to shots fired ratio is still extremely low in combat - run & gun, stressful, adrenaline situations. The well trained may have a higher hit rate, but they're using projectiles going thousands of feet per second with ballistic coefficients far superior to a ball.

I wouldn't want to get hit with a paintball going 3000fps, and how many of us actually have the time to learn to shoot something as accurately as it is capable, not to mention the targets are often moving, which adds a further degree of difficulty.

All that said, we'd all probably be out there spraying just as many more expensive/more accurate paintballs as we do the ones we have now.

[Patron God of Pirates]

All that said, we'd all probably be out there spraying just as many more expensive/more accurate paintballs as we do the ones we have now.

I disagree only because I think that if everyone was playing with highly accurate equipment those run and gun situations would not occur with any frequency. The ability to long ball, and the fear of being long balled would paralyze the game. I have a nightmare vision of 6 hour games just thinking about it.

So, I lined up the sights, applied a fair amount of holdover, and let a first strike round fly.

I could see this being fun if I were one of a handful of people using FS rounds. If everyone was rocking those FS rounds this scenario would never have taken place.

[nak81783]

I like this thread. Good idea to start it.

The only ways to get more distance is more speed or a better ballistic coefficient. Our current safety standards won't allow more speed.

I hate to do this, but I have to bring up precision vs. accuracy, but only because this thread is hypothetically discussing increased precision in the game we all love.

That said, even is paintballs were 100% precise, I still think there would be run & gun, because it's up to the shooter to provide the accuracy. A projectile's trajectory at 300fps is extremely curved. Furthermore, the lead for even a human sprint speed is considerable. Add that into an unknown distance, and I think we'd still have an accuracy by volume game.

For comparison, shooting a .22LR at 200 yards is said to be like shooting a .308 at 700+yards. It's all based on models of scale. Paintball (even with extreme precision) would be the same, because so many variables are still the responsibility of the shooter.

By the way, your quotes are wrong above.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Thanks, I fixed the quotes. I guess the only way to know would be if it occurred. My position relies more on the human element than on anything measurable. Whatever the most effective method is would most likely determine how the game was played. The guys I first started playing with 15+ years ago would probably still be hiding in the woods if it worked. If precision to the edge of breaking distance could be relied on by the shooter, then I do think people would take the time to master the skill. Just like so many of us have tried to master snap shooting and all of the other skills that go with the way the game is played now.

[cockerpunk]

I like this thread. Good idea to start it.

The only ways to get more distance is more speed or a better ballistic coefficient. Our current safety standards won't allow more speed.

I hate to do this, but I have to bring up precision vs. accuracy, but only because this thread is hypothetically discussing increased precision in the game we all love.

That said, even is paintballs were 100% precise, I still think there would be run & gun, because it's up to the shooter to provide the accuracy. A projectile's trajectory at 300fps is extremely curved. Furthermore, the lead for even a human sprint speed is considerable. Add that into an unknown distance, and I think we'd still have an accuracy by volume game.

For comparison, shooting a .22LR at 200 yards is said to be like shooting a .308 at 700+yards. It's all based on models of scale. Paintball (even with extreme precision) would be the same, because so many variables are still the responsibility of the shooter.

By the way, your quotes are wrong above.

everyone who has taken 8th grade science likes to bring up the accuracy vs precision argument, and its silly, so im gonna nip this in the butt right now.

in paintball, they can be used interchangeably.

why?

because accuracy is the ability and rate at which a system hits a target. so i can take the same gun, and the same target, and i can shoot it, and get 100% accuracy, and 0% accuracy ... how? just by changing the aim point. the aim point relies on the shooter, so one might say, well, that means the person is reposnable for accuracy, while the setup is responsible for precision. and thats fine, im fine with that. but you also don't see threads on forums saying "how can it get more precision from my gun?"

[uv_halo]

I could see this being fun if I were one of a handful of people using FS rounds. If everyone was rocking those FS rounds this scenario would never have taken place.

True but, what makes the game challenging is that FS rounds force folks to choose low capacity, for long range and better accuracy, or, high capacity for reduced range and reduced accuracy. Successful application of either of these rounds require the appropriate tactics.

[blackdeath1k]

I really think if the paint was more accurate in a farther distance... Say we all have paint that shoots as far and accurate as fs rounds. All it would change is the distance apart of apposing players. Go to any scenario now. You have your guys that will crawl in the mud and brush across a field for a good hidden sniper shot. And you have your up close and personal fire fight guys. That wouldn't change. The guy crawling in the mud and brush will still be there. Just maybe shooting from a farther distance. And your speedball style players will still be there. Probably not shooting from a farther distance.

A fs round shot at 300 fps will fly farther and straighter because its velocity doesn't drop as fast. Along with other more technical reasons. So we could keep the same fps rules and get quicker distance shots with better paint technology. That said. I'm betting the universally allowd fps would drop to compensate for the difference in average speed the ball will be flying when it hits the target.

[nak81783]

If precision to the edge of breaking distance could be relied on by the shooter, then I do think people would take the time to master the skill. Just like so many of us have tried to master snap shooting and all of the other skills that go with the way the game is played now.

This is a good point. But this could be easily countered, because paintballs are so slow. By the time you visually acquire your target, raise marker, apply appropriate lead and holdover, and fire, I would already be at the next bunker by the time the projectile got there.

And if you were laying in wait, paintballs travel about 1/3 the speed of sound. I'd hear the shot and take a dive before it got there. Granted I might not be able to dodge it completely, but I could certainly reduce my profile enough to reduce risk. My friends and I play "Matrix" once in a while. Two guys 50 feet apart take turns one shot a a time. You can't leave your feet, but you can twist, contort, and otherwise dodge the paintball however possible. I know this sounds goofy, but it's fun and relevant.

I guess what I'm saying is there'd be methods to counter any improvement in precision, within the current velocity/safety realm.

[blackdeath1k]

True but, what makes the game challenging is that FS rounds force folks to choose low capacity, for long range and better accuracy, or, high capacity for reduced range and reduced accuracy. Successful application of either of these rounds require the appropriate tactics.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Only complaint is when your playing in that scenario with FPO and the paint is warped and dimpled and just plain crap. Then no one can hit the broad side of a barn and has to spray and pray.

[nak81783]

everyone who has taken 8th grade science likes to bring up the accuracy vs precision argument, and its silly, so im gonna nip this in the butt right now.

in paintball, they can be used interchangeably.

why?

because accuracy is the ability and rate at which a system hits a target. so i can take the same gun, and the same target, and i can shoot it, and get 100% accuracy, and 0% accuracy ... how? just by changing the aim point. the aim point relies on the shooter, so one might say, well, that means the person is reposnable for accuracy, while the setup is responsible for precision. and thats fine, im fine with that. but you also don't see threads on forums saying "how can it get more precision from my gun?"

I knew you'd be the one to call me on this. As I stated, it is only for the hypothetical discussion of this thread that I brought it up. Since you said you're fine with my rationale, I'll leave it at that.

One more point though. Since we don't see threads asking how to improve the precision of our markers, does that mean most of us don't have an 8th grade education? Uh oh.