Check this out. Pump "hopper"

[BLachance75]

Sure it is cool but I don't see the point either. I would say that wouldn't be allowed in a stock class only game.

[GoatBoy]

I have a sportshot on my pumpmag and don't have to shake it.

I believe you!

But not everyone shoots a gun the same way you do.

Why? If the point is to limit paint and level the playing field by using stock class set ups, what's the point of using such a set up only to push it and try to find the loopholes? Just play open class.

The point is to test the rules.

[OPBN]

The point is to test the rules.

That's where we disagree. If you want to test the rules in order to have an advantage, why not just to play open class? I deal with various situations where people keep pushing the rules all the time and what ends up is a ludicrous list of minutely detailed rules that become cumbersome. Or people push the rules to the point where massive change occurs in the activity and it no longer resembles the original activity so people lose interest and walk away. Guess it's just a sore point with me .

[GoatBoy]

That's where we disagree. If you want to test the rules in order to have an advantage, why not just to play open class? I deal with various situations where people keep pushing the rules all the time and what ends up is a ludicrous list of minutely detailed rules that become cumbersome. Or people push the rules to the point where massive change occurs in the activity and it no longer resembles the original activity so people lose interest and walk away. Guess it's just a sore point with me .

Why not play both if your equipment is sanctioned in both? I can't actually specify a reason to not play open class. That doesn't answer the stock class question though. It's sort of a fallacious question to ask.

I'm curious what you think about the AGD Six Pack. (<-- This is me testing your rules.)

[OPBN]

Why not play both if your equipment is sanctioned in both? I can't actually specify a reason to not play open class. That doesn't answer the stock class question though. It's sort of a fallacious question to ask.

I'm curious what you think about the AGD Six Pack. (<-- This is me testing your rules.)

Slightly different situation as they came out pre constant air. They were a general innovation, not a way around the rules. There were no rules in place at the time saying you could only used 12ies as that was all there was. Had there been a rule saying its all you can use, then I would disagree with their use as they are a way to bend the rules. I'm not anti innovation, I am anti trying to work the rules to get an advantage. Again, if someone wants to play open class, do so. I don't see the point of specifically playing a limited air/paint style of paintball only to work the system so that you have more. Kind of like the guys who think they are playing mag fed by putting on a 50 round drum mag. Yes it's mag fed, but you might as well just throw a hopper on it.

[GoatBoy]

Slightly different situation as they came out pre constant air. They were a general innovation, not a way around the rules. There were no rules in place at the time saying you could only used 12ies as that was all there was. Had there been a rule saying its all you can use, then I would disagree with their use as they are a way to bend the rules. I'm not anti innovation, I am anti trying to work the rules to get an advantage.

You seem to be going inconsistently soft on the Six Pack.

Again, if someone wants to play open class, do so. I don't see the point of specifically playing a limited air/paint style of paintball only to work the system so that you have more.

Again, I can't answer the question of "Why not go play open class?". Well, I mean, I can -- the answer is "sure, go play open class as well", at which point answering that question still doesn't answer the other question, and you start wondering what the point of asking such a question was in the first place.

Kind of like the guys who think they are playing mag fed by putting on a 50 round drum mag. Yes it's mag fed, but you might as well just throw a hopper on it.

Some of the MagFed guys do allow hoppers. They're called "Tac caps". Because they're more "TactiCool". Do you think that rule makes sense?

The people making the rules are humans. Humans who are fallible. In some cases, quite badly, horribly, painfully fallible.

[OPBN]

You seem to be going inconsistently soft on the Six Pack.

How so? I said they were out before constant air. People didn't used 12gs as a means to limit air, they used them because its all there was. AGD innovated and came out with the 6pack. It was an innovation much like constant air was. Would I agree with someone using them today in a stock class setup? No.

I don't disagree that humans make rules and can be wrong, but if the rules are specifically in this case to create a level playing field by limiting paint to 10 round tubes and single load 12ies, using this product would be an attempt to bend those rules, just as using a 6pack would be. And again, for open class play, fine. I still think it's pointless, but if someone wants to use it, fine.

Allowing Tac caps for Mag fed I can see as long as they are cut to limit the amount of paint to be equal to everyone else. I can also see this as it allows for more participation. This product doesn't.

[BLachance75]

Stock class and mag fed are both niche games. I think that mag fed is more about a look/realistic kind of game. TAC caps help provide the look so I think they are generally accepted.

I think playing stock class is different kind of thing. Some people play to be "purists", the challenge, the money, or whatever. I think the big difference over mag fed is the amount of time that it has been played and having established rules. There are different variations of the rules but they are all bascally similar, 12gr air source, 10-15rnd horizontal feed.

I think that you withe have the equipment to play either style or you don't. You have to make a choice to either play in the gam for not. If you want to play you have to follow the rules established.

IMHO this hopper thing doesn't meet the rules of stock class only games. Besides holding 40rnds it also stacks the balls. Sure it is probably only 2 balls on top of what is in the breach, but it still provides an advantage. It would be fine in open play but not stock class. Put it on your marker of choice and have fun.

Personally I'm fine with somebody using a 6pack in a SC game. The only issue that I could see would be the check valve. Some SC games are ok with them and some aren't. The 6pack still only powers the marker off of 1 12gr at a time. Sure it is quicker to change them but not by much. With practice you can empty and refill a CCI bucket changer in about a second.

[GoatBoy]

How so? I said they were out before constant air. People didn't used 12gs as a means to limit air, they used them because its all there was. AGD innovated and came out with the 6pack. It was an innovation much like constant air was. Would I agree with someone using them today in a stock class setup? No.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It's not like bulk CO2 didn't exist before paintball -- just nobody actually plopped one on a gun, probably because "Why would anyone want to do that? I don't see the point."

Of course both the Six Pack and CA would immediately be banned, hence going back to your question "Were they using 12gs to limit air?" Annnnnnnnnnd it sounds like the answer to that question was effectively yes. They just weren't stating it outright. You don't know these things until you test them. Dishonest people gonna be dishonest (not calling you dishonest), and as technology marches forward, you gotta call these folks out.

This is why we push the rules from time to time.

I don't disagree that humans make rules and can be wrong, but if the rules are specifically in this case to create a level playing field by limiting paint to 10 round tubes and single load 12ies, using this product would be an attempt to bend those rules, just as using a 6pack would be. And again, for open class play, fine. I still think it's pointless, but if someone wants to use it, fine.

Well, as lancecst pointed out, it wouldn't meet true stock class rules. It would be considered as a vertical feed, in which case the neck + elbow would allow for more than 10 rounds even if you excluded the non-live tubes (assuming the other 3 are in fact blocked off). So fear not -- the "sanctity of stock class" shall not be infringed.

If you're going to poo-poo it, you should do so on the basis of functionality/practicality or something. Something real, not some perceived yet nonexistent threat to some pet rules.

The worst sin committed is of course the continued use of a feed neck. Remove the feed neck contraption in its entirety and slap it directly onto the body of the gun. I still do not understand why this sin continues to be committed as we close out 2013. IT IS UNCLEAN UNTO THEE. Screw compatibility with other markers.

And personally I wouldn't use it as I despise "X on top of gun", where X is damn near anything.

But I can easily see the utility for the device for people that don't mind X on top of gun. It's a bridge between capacity, size, reliability, and complexity. You get straight feed paint without the need to agitate or pull a spring back. You have to stop every 10+x number of shots to rotate, but that also allows you to selectively reload fresh tubes. I tend to call this the "third hand problem".

You could also customize it downwards -- maybe all I need is 2 tubes. In fact, no bones about it -- all I would need is 2 tubes. You can't really gracefully downsize a SportShot.

That's just one of the variations of this basic idea.

Allowing Tac caps for Mag fed I can see as long as they are cut to limit the amount of paint to be equal to everyone else. I can also see this as it allows for more participation. This product doesn't.

No, it's not fine, but that's a topic for another thread.

[OPBN]

You obviously care more about it than I do. Unfortunately I don't enough to continue. IMO, it's a silly device.

[blackdeath1k]

Eh with any style of play we learn to push the rules to the brink. Those honest try to push it right to the legal limit. Those dishonest try and push as far past legal as they think they can get away with. Such is nature.

[GoatBoy]

You obviously care more about it than I do. Unfortunately I don't enough to continue. IMO, it's a silly device.

Well hold on Professor.

Do you see the point of something like this?



(That one's a little excessive, but you get the idea.)

And do you see the point of something like this?



And do you see the point of something like this?



But as soon as you move the 10rd tubes all the way to the top, the whole thing become pointless (and possibly cheating)?

[Spider-TW]

In operation, it's just another arrangement of a splatmaster rapide.

rapide-L83863.jpg

The best part is that it no longer has the marker attached to it.

[OPBN]

Well hold on Professor.

Do you see the point of something like this?



(That one's a little excessive, but you get the idea.)

And do you see the point of something like this?



And do you see the point of something like this?



But as soon as you move the 10rd tubes all the way to the top, the whole thing become pointless (and possibly cheating)?

I really got your goat didn't I?

(see what I did there?)

[BTAutoMag]