Gun Trade - Lost Gun Advice

[Dayspring]

So I'm in a bind...

Traded my Freeflow Eblade to a guy in Cali for his Eclipse Geo 2.0. He got his gun (verified by USPS). He shipped mine out a day or so later. However the USPS says that they have no record of it ever being picked up (even though we have an email from their system saying it was). I submitted a claim for the insurance, but was originally denied b/c they say they can't verify the method of shipping. I've appealed that decision with some PDF paperwork from the shipper, but haven't heard anything back yet.

So my question is this - if they deny the claim, what recourse do I have with the shipper? In his eyes, the gun left his possession, but according to the USPS, it never was picked up. He's already modified the gun (think he halfblocked it) so it's not like I can ask for the gun back.

If the USPS denies the appeal, am I pretty much screwed out of a gun? Can I go to the shipper and get some sort of financial compensation for the lost article?

Thoughts?

[ScottyBeans]

That really sucks. If you have .PDF proof that the package was accepted I don't see how they can deny an appeal. Just keep complaining and making a fuss and you should eventually get soemthing (insurance, I'd imagine).

As far as getting anything from the shipper, I'd imagine there's no real recourse you can take. It sounds to me like he shipped it, which completes the deal on his part. No reason he should be on the hook for this that I can see.

[Dayspring]

See, the thing is, when you load the tracking # for the package, it says that it only generated the tracking number, and no pickup happened.

Not sure which they give more credence to - their tracking system (which says nothing was picked up) or an email from their system that says it was.

[knownothingmags]

where in California?
I had to press my usps for an item from PTP it to a month to find but finally found it,
and this was after 20 days of them saying no it doesn't exist.
other then that im sorry I don't know what other options you have.
I hope you get lucky and it just shows up.

***the guy is a trusted trader, or you have done business with him before?

[SoulCoffin]

dang, you mentioned this happening a ittle while back on beo. can't believe they're still pushing back, even when you have an automated email from their system. what was their counterargument against that?

[knownothingmags]

it was the automated notice from the usps,
and not the notice that the shipper just got a tracking number, correct?

[Dayspring]

Guy had significant positive feedback on Customcockers.com.

Shipped from Santa Maria. (Picked up from his house.)


Now, I went through their customer affairs group, and they forwarded a "find this package" to their mail recovery service. Though, according to them, it may take up to 3 months. There would be NO communication about it - the package either shows up or it doesn't.

Their argument against the claim was "no verification of your method of mailing."

[Dayspring]

it was the automated notice from the usps,
and not the notice that the shipper just got a tracking number, correct?

We have a PDF copy of an email from [email protected] to the shipper saying "this is to confirm that a successful Package Pickup was made." Included some information on that as well.

Their tracking system, however, shows nothing but a tracking number being generated.

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfi...99300032858966

[Frizzle Fry]

First off, I take issue with the guy modifying YOUR marker. It's not his marker to modify, not until you receive the marker you are owed. Modifying/milling/parting/selling a marker received in a trade deal before the deal is completed raises a big red flag to me about this person. I know on PBNation and TechPB there are specific B/S/T rules covering this. How is this persons feedback? Did you agree to let him ship first or is that just "how it worked out"? Very fishy.

Secondly, can you be sure that the USPS confirmation email is genuine? Did you receive it, or did he? Are you sure that the email specified that the marker was picked up, or is it just the "shipping printed" notification and "pickup scheduled" notification which can be sent when shipping labels are printed out at home from Stamps.com or PayPal... That's pretty thin evidence of having been shipped either way, since automated USPS notifications are sent based on the tracking database, not vice versa, and you must sign up to receive them.

Third, and most important, you need to tell him to make things right. He (the shipper) is the customer; he hired USPS to deliver something to you - it is his responsibility to file claims, make phone calls, and fill out paperwork. All you should be doing is passing along any forms that need your signature; he purchased the insurance, not you. If he left the package on his doorstep and it got nicked before the postman showed up, that is his responsibility, not yours and not USPS, and he needs to make things right (or receive a big negative feedback, and possibly be taken to small claims court).

If he truly did fulfill his end of the deal, and he can give compelling evidence that the package was delivered into USPS custody (CCTV of the postman picking it up, a live confirmation from USPS that they did receive it, etc) but for some reason USPS chooses not to pay out, I don't think he deserves a negative feedback rating or should be held responsible. In that unlikely event, however, a good person would do SOMETHING to make things right.

That said, I think you're being hoodwinked.

[knownothingmags]

We have a PDF copy of an email from [email protected] to the shipper saying "this is to confirm that a successful Package Pickup was made." Included some information on that as well.

Their tracking system, however, shows nothing but a tracking number being generated.

you know what I would keep my hopes up,
they have a way of just getting things to people, and going "oh you were waiting for this, oh I have all the info about it right here" in the end.

how long have you been waiting?

[Dayspring]

12/14/2013

[Frizzle Fry]

We have a PDF copy of an email from [email protected] to the shipper saying "this is to confirm that a successful Package Pickup was made." Included some information on that as well.[/url]

Didn't see this as I was typing.

If you didn't receive the email personally, I wouldn't put much faith in it being real.

[Dayspring]

First off, I take issue with the guy modifying YOUR marker. It's not his marker to modify, not until you receive the marker you are owed. Modifying/milling/parting/selling a marker received in a trade deal before the deal is completed raises a big red flag to me about this person. I know on PBNation and TechPB there are specific B/S/T rules covering this. How is this persons feedback? Did you agree to let him ship first or is that just "how it worked out"? Very fishy.

Secondly, can you be sure that the USPS confirmation email is genuine? Did you receive it, or did he? Are you sure that the email specified that the marker was picked up, or is it just the "shipping printed" notification and "pickup scheduled" notification which can be sent when shipping labels are printed out at home from Stamps.com or PayPal... That's pretty thin evidence of having been shipped either way, since automated USPS notifications are sent based on the tracking database, not vice versa, and you must sign up to receive them.

Third, and most important, you need to tell him to make things right. He (the shipper) is the customer; he hired USPS to deliver something to you - it is his responsibility to file claims, make phone calls, and fill out paperwork. All you should be doing is passing along any forms that need your signature; he purchased the insurance, not you. If he left the package on his doorstep and it got nicked before the postman showed up, that is his responsibility, not yours and not USPS, and he needs to make things right (or receive a big negative feedback, and possibly be taken to small claims court).

If he truly did fulfill his end of the deal, and he can give compelling evidence that the package was delivered into USPS custody (CCTV of the postman picking it up, a live confirmation from USPS that they did receive it, etc) but for some reason USPS chooses not to pay out, I don't think he deserves a negative feedback rating or should be held responsible. In that unlikely event, however, a good person would do SOMETHING to make things right.

That said, I think you're being hoodwinked.

When speaking with USPS Customer Affairs, they said that EITHER party can handle the paperwork - shipper or recipient.

As for the pickup email, I see nothing in it that makes it look bogus.

[Dayspring]

Here's a redacted copy of the confirmation email:

2013-12-19 204000_redacted.pdf


I do email marketing on a daily basis - I see nothing here that would raise a red flag that this is bogus.

[Frizzle Fry]

When speaking with USPS Customer Affairs, they said that EITHER party can handle the paperwork - shipper or recipient.

That's technically true, but there's no reason you should bear the burden of fighting to get the insurance payout - it should be his responsibility.

As for the pickup email, I see nothing in it that makes it look bogus.

It's a template/formletter, right? Sent automatically?

Anybody who's ever received one before (or seen one before) can mock it up with whatever information they want using image edition software, then do a PDF capture. Not hard.

By the way, you HAVE seen something to make it look bogus; these notifications are sent out when USPS scans the item at pickup - they didn't scan the item, or it would appear on the tracking page.


***EDIT***

I do email marketing on a daily basis - I see nothing here that would raise a red flag that this is bogus.

That looks like a scanned printout of an email - very easy to fake! I could make that with MS Word alone, print it, and scan it.

Of the errors I can see, it lists the number of packages under "Pickup Time", the weight under "Total Packages" and the location under "Weight".

Beyond that, "any other use of the email by you is prohibited" doesn't sound authentic.



Ask him to forward it to you... Not a scan, not a screengrab, forward the actual email.