Paintball Is Not A War Game!!

[Hysperion]

paintball is nothing like war.....the tactics we are taught in the army or that any branch of service teaches you are not very useful for paintball.....everything is completely different....the only thing the army did for me in terms of paintball is making me more aggressive....I'd argue that when you play in the woods with camo on and moving together then it might be considered a wargame. But tourney paintball isn't even close....

[Thordic]

Paintball is, at the very basics, a wargame. No matter how much you argue, you can't argue against that. You shoot a GUN for crying out loud. Call it a marker all you want, but its a gun.

Is paintball like tag? Sure. War is like tag too. "Tag, you're dead."

Does that mean we have to, or even should, market it as a wargame? No. Just because it is fundamentally a wargame doesn't mean that we have to make it warlike.

Tons of things we do are based off concepts of war. Real The Art of War, by Sun Tzu, and realize how many of his concepts of WAR can be applied to the business world.

Like I said though, we try to make it as visibly non-warlike as possible, which is a good thing. But don't try to argue that it isn't a wargame at heart, because thats just wrong.

[FatMan]

Definitions

This argument comes down to semantics. What is your definition of a "war game?" With a suitable definition just about everything could be said to be a war game. Football, for example, is about physically conquering territory. And this thing about guns is kind of bogus. What do you call what the Romans did to most of Europe? They didn't have any guns. How is what THEY did related to paintball?

Someone said that people who focus on that fact that paintball is a GAME are really just conditioned to be PC. I would argue that those who think that anything that involves a "gun" is about war are the ones whose thinking has been done for them. This same kind of thinking would like to outlaw hunting and sport shooting and gun collecting.

I'm not interested in arguing about paintball being a war GAME - because a war GAME is just that: A GAME! Games are about having fun, about out-witting your opponent or proving your superior skill. They have rules that are designed to keep things balanced, which is what makes them fun to play, and often fun to watch.

Paintball may be a game that was inspired by war - but paintball is not very much like war. Nor is paintball a very good simulation of war. I know a lot of people writing on this thread think so, but I'd like to know if ANY of you have any first-hand experience of WAR? I don't. I *have* talked to quite a few paintball players that DO, and what surprised me is that I have NEVER met anyone who has actually participated in war who thinks paintball is anything like war (Who knows, maybe someone out there will surprise me).

Kids think running around pointing sticks at each other and yelling "bang" is like war. Its not. I'm sure some poor deluded individuals think playing paintball is going to prepare them for war. It won't. I have a family member who is in special forces (and has seen action). He tells me their command DISCOURAGES paintball playing - because it tends to break down training. Paintball tactics are WRONG for true combat.

Yeah, I know scenario games are often "based" on wars and combat - and even have game features designed to make them more "realistic." Sit down an talk to someone who has seen combat. Scenario games are NOTHING like combat.

You can argue until you are blue in the face about guns and bullets and the experience of shooting and being shot at, but YOU are the one who is fooling yourself. You should pray you never have to go to war, because it will be nothing like paintball. Nothing at all.
Because war is NOT a game.

FatMan

[cphilip]

Me say Ditto to that FatMan. Nice post.

[Hysperion]

that was so powerful fatman *sob* I think I'm gonna cry ...good point about how tactics are completely different because nothing the military teaches you helps very much with paintball....I doubt it hurts though...

[shartley]

[cphilip]

Super Soaker wars? Why thats just nuts!!! I dunno...sounds dangerous to me....

[shartley]

LOL Phil. It IS nuts. But a great way to cool down on a hot day.

Dangerous? Nah... not unless you are Dad and fall off the roof (because you are the only one who can climb up there)... LOL

[FatMan]

Cool, Sharley agreed with me ... I think

Hmm, that started off reading like Shartley was disagreeing with me (which I'm pretty much used to) but then it sounded like no, he AGREED with me (more or less).

Huh. Did I miss something?

Anyway, Assuming I didn't like totally mis-read what he wrote, I'll agree with HIM and point out that perception IS the issue and we can tell OTHER people all day long that its not war but until WE start to BELIEVE IT OURSELVES and start ACTING accordingly, the perception will remain.

I think the operative word is "game." Paintball is a game. Where it comes from isn't really the issue. The perception IS an issue. A couple years ago I started reading about these issues and I made up my mind that MY paintball is a game that has little if anything to do with war. I think if I could get the rest of you to see that too then when people look at us they might begin to see something other than war.

Paintball is digging its way out of the subculture - out of the underground. It is going through a lot of growing pains on the way. I doubt I'll ever see the day that little old ladies don't call it "war" and the ultra-liberal crowd doesn't call it "violent." But it sure doesn't help when a bunch of bozos go around saying "its just like being in combat! it was so cool, just like being in Viet-Nam" like they've ever been anywhere NEAR a combat zone or ever will be!

What I'm saying is how can the rest of society ever get off the "war" and "violence" thing with paintball, if paintball PLAYERS can't?

At the moment I'm doing all *I* know how to do. *I* don't refer to it that way, and I ask others to consider what "war" and "violence" REALLY are and ask yourself, is THAT what paintball is? Is THAT what I like about paintball? Is that what I want others to think about me and my sport?

Its up to us guys. We make the reality that we live in. I think it IS possible to change the public's mind, but WE have to want to do that first. Shartley may be right in saying that as a community, we aren't doing that.

FatMan

[meanelvis]

good post, shartley.. not like this is an argument with 2 sides on it, it's becoming more of a discussion on how to rectify the public's opinion of paintball (which is the right direction for this discussion), and how the public has come to the base belief that paintball is be a wargame.

[Vex]

Fat Man and shartley:

You both have made very excellent comments. We, as players, need to check the "war game" attitude at the field entrance. As Fat Man said, if we can convince ourselves that it's not a war game, then maybe, just maybe, the general public will change their views as well.

One aspect I've never considered until recently is that, when I first started playing (all of 9 years ago) and we shot someone and eliminated them, we referred to it as a "kill." As the years progressed, a "kill" has transformed (in name only) to just "getting" or "tagging someone out." I attribute this to those of us old heads, who've wisened up and seen the sport for what it actually is, sharing our experiences with newbs and letting them develop their game and pass on the knowledge that they've (hopefully) learned. I'm not saying that players don't still refer to eliminations as "kills", however; if we can changed little things like this, then we can help the sport develop to its full potential--then maybe someday we'll see paintball in the Olympics.

[RATM]

I'm gonna quote my favorite movie on this one and i'll let you relate that to the topic however you may wish;

"We're designed to be hunters and we're in a society of shopping. There's nothing to kill anymore, there's nothing to fight, nothing to overcome, nothing to explore. In that social emasculation this everyman is created."

[OldSchoolMag]

Phaze, changing our lingo to be politically correct is probably the smallest of our problems in becoming a recognized sport, but it is a problem...

I was just thinking about it, and you're right in some aspects - war is COMPLETELY different from paintball. Never again will I refer to it as war, because if you really delve into it, and think about it, paintball is not war in any sense of the word, save one - combat. Paintball is combat. So what? Football is combat. Hell, you could consider slamming a piece of iron against a little white ball combat, in some sense of the word... but not much. A combat simulating sport is all I see paintball as. It gives me an adrenaline rush, which I assume has something to do with the feelings I used to get playing cowboys and "native Americans" as a kid with Nerf guns... except it seems a little more grown up.

However, as for becoming an Olympic Sport, it'd take paintball a lot of work. Legitamite rules, for one. PRO reffing and the standardizing of the NPPL style rules is putting us there. The lack of cheating is another, and will be harder to erradicate. PRO reffing, again, is bringing us there. At the bottom of the list, I would think, is the politically incorrect dramitization the general public has of our sport. It's just not that important. How many people here had mothers that wouldn't let them play football because it was "too dangerous"? It was percieved as just a bunch of kids going around hitting each other. Rugby is worse. As long as people will understand that paintball is athletic and takes skill (which it does, to an extent... neither her nor there) it IS a sport. Chess... bah. Maybe. I just hope we don't have to wait an eternity like they did until we get recognized.

OSM

[FatMan]

Interesting show

Last night I watched a documentary about the TRUE story that was made into the movie "Blackhawk Down." It really solidified for me the differences I've been trying to point out. I recommend the show (History Channel) if you get the chance.

I would like to point out this is NOT an issue of politically incorrect lingo. The lingo is only a symptom. The problem runs deeper into attitudes and misconceptions about paintball, war, and violence.

There IS the potential for newer, younger players who really know nothing about war and violence to mistakenly believe that paintball IS a simulation of that. Educating these youngsters goes beyond paintball, but as members of a group that are in a position to see that misconception, we need to point it out. That's what I try to do when this question comes up. Its not that I'm like angry or obsessed or something, but seriously, many of the younger guys didn't experience things like the Viet Nam war, they don't remember watching the casualty reports every night. So, I like to let them know, war isn't a game. Paintball is.

Further Deponent Sayeth Not.

FatMan