I talked my "COCKER" buddy into buying a SFL. He's not happy!

[2000Sabre]

I been having an email conversation with Brian Terry regarding this subject. Brian recommended to me that I use the old SS foamie style bolt. That's what he's been using in his SFL and has not experienced the ball breakage problems the rest of us are having. He also mentioned that he was going to speak with Jon on this very subject. Although I tried to order one they are currently out of stock.

I played in a tourney yesterday, and I did not have a whole lot of luck with my SFL. Very inconsistent. Sometimes I would play a game and have one or 2 breaks, then go to the chroney and couldn't get a ball out of the barrel without it breaking. From what I read and observed in the forum, if you're using the SFL you need a foamy style bolt. It just dosen't seem to work well without one. However, I'm not sure this is the only thing it needs.

My setup and conditions yesterday were, 40 - 45 degrees, 32 degrees Team Color paint, Freak barrel system with .693 insert and AA front, Long nose SS RT bolt, Warp and Halo. I have also run my SFL with a 14" DYE boomstick barrel with similar results.

I'm not sure about how others who have purchased the SFL feel, but I'm very dissapointed in the performance of mine. I'm waiting paiently for Tom to make the ACE available and some of the other goodies but it's hard to see other guys using other markers without these kinds of problems. It really makes me think if I've made the right decision. I love AGD and I love the feel and trigger of the SFL but if it can't shoot reliable it isn't much good. I'm willing to buy a new bolt or whatever it takes to make this work but I really want a solid answer from AGD what the problem is.

If they tell me it's wait for the design changes so be it but please tell me when I can get them because right now I have a very expensive paint blender.

[luke]

We can run a standard bolt??

I'm surprised it came standard with the super bolt, seems to me all the bugs aren't work out yet.

[than205]

did anyone pick up that he said the paint was almost a year old? I dunno, it seems old to me. Maybe, I'm wrong...

[cphilip]

OK lets get something straight here. Saul is the EMAG guy so you need to be talking to him not Jon is my understanding.

Yes I agree there needs to be some resolution to this. I mean you few SFL guys are indeed the Guinea Pigs here and I respect you for that. And I am certain it will be resolved in due time. Please, for all the rest of us waiting to upgrade, hang in there. Tom will be back, I think today if not tomorrow, and can start resolving some of these issues for you.

I am attempting to get a message to Saul to check in here if he can about this. Hang in there for a bit.

[2000Sabre]

The SFL comes standard with the Superbolt. However, my Superbolt broke the first day out. Tom K suggested using the stock longnose RT bolt because of the problems with the Superbolt and the fact that Superbolts with the eventual modifications were'nt available at the time this occured.

[brian terry]

guy"s i played this past saturday it was around 40 and raining ,i did not break 1 ball all day i shot 1 case of paint,and on the fomey bolt yes you need it ,and yes i use the standerd ss fomey bolt,i have the ace in my sfl ,you guys and girls with the sfl get the ace asap ,but even befor i had it, i dident have the brakeing prob you all are haveing ,if any of you are comeing to the ult madness in huntington on april 5 6 7th bring your gun to the airgun booth and ill get it shooting right for you even if i have to buy you the fomey bolt my self,.,./

[MrAirgunRT]

Yeah Brian's speaking the word here, he rarely ever breaks paint, no matter how fast he is shooting. His gun never has any other problems either.

[Eric_AGD]

Luke,

As far as I know, none of the new SFL's have been updated to the foamie style superbolt. They were all made up before we started having troubles with the superbolts, and I have not seen any of them in for updates. I recommend he sends in the bolt, and we will put a foamie on it. Your buddy can use a regular automag stainless steel bolt in the SFL while his superbolt is being updated.

I have also heard of some problems with the ball detent that is in the removable breech. Try backing out the ball detent 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn. It would be best if you took it all the way out, then put an oring around the threads, and screw it back in so that it is tight on the oring. This will keep it from unscrewing by itself.

You stated that you tried many barrels. There was one type of barrel (I can not remember whose) that does not fit into the counter bore on the feed module. Unscrew the barrel, take out the feed module, and make sure the barrel fits into the counterbore. This counterbore aligns the bolt, feed chamber, and barrel. Make sure the barrel is tight when firing the gun also.

This is all that I can think of right off the top of my head. If I think of anything else to try, I will let you know.

Eric

[kilaueakid]

I originally had the problems barrel breaks with my sfl. Some mods were done a couple times and now it hasn't broke a ball in a long, long time. I think the problem people are having with the original superbolt(sfl stock) is the fact that it is larger in diameter and it is putting a stree fracture in the the next ball in the stack. When that next ball goes into the breach and is hit with 60 psi of air...you get a barrel break. The slower bolt speed mods should completely eliminate this problem. You can also try using a smaller diameter bolt. I have a few different superbolts and a AGD foamie.I use my freak insersts to check the diameter of them. Some fit in the .689, one fit's in the .684 and the SFL super bolt won't even fit in the .695 insert.

Try this, see if you are still breaking when feeding the balls in 1 at a time. This should help eliminate some variables. If it shoots fine one at a time and never breaks, than more than likely it has something to do with your bolt speed or bolt diameter.

Back to when I first had problems, I noticed they were breaking right where the barrel met the breach. I could see the wear from the bolt stopped a bit before the junction of the breach/barrel,so Ihadmy breach milled in further so the barrel sat closer to the ball detents. DONT ANYONE GO HAVE THIS DONE to your breach as you will need that space if they decide to go with the longer bolt stroke.

I know it can be very frusterating everyone, but with a little patience, I'm sure TK and AGD will make it right for everyone.

If anyone wants more details, feel free to send me an email or pm. [email protected]

kila

[kilaueakid]

It is a cocker freak back that does not fit the breach module...at least some of them. Somewhere along the line, Smart Parts changed the size of there barrel OD.

It fit's in my breach, I had the counter bore enlarged a couple thousands.

kila

[Hysperion]

I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. THE SUPERBOLT IS CRAP IN THE SFL! Pick up a AGD Longnose foamie or foamieless. Even when the ACE was put in my gun I still had alot of balls breaking in the breach. Luckily, my superbolt broke on me so I was forced to switch to a Longnose, I haven't had any problems since except with fragile paint in cold weather. When I play indoors I never chop or break one ball in a whole case most of the time. I have the ACE and it's great when you remember to turn it on but just by switching to the stainless bolt you will solve more problems then the ACE ever could.

[kilaueakid]

Ok Here are some more hint's to see weather or not you have severe ball bobble which is what happens when the 2nd ball in the stack is "nicked", "pinched", "hit", by the bolt on it's forward movement.

1. Remove your hopper from your SFL or any gun for that matter. Place 3-5 however many will fit in the feedneck without hopper on. Next, fire gun. Does 1 or 2 balls pop up and out of the feed neck?? Many people associate this with blowback, which is not always the case. It is ball bobble. If that 1 or 2 balls is flying up and out, that means the bolt is smacking the next ball in the stack.

Now picture this happening with 6-8 balls in a feedneck/loader neck, and the pressure being forced back down by the hopper and weight of more paintballs, making it next to impossible for the balls to move back upwards when the bolt hits #2 in the stack, especially with a HALO. This will put a stress fracture in the ball ready to go into the breach. Having a slower bolt speed will help this as the bolt now hits the next ball in the stack at a slower feet per second.

Now as for the superbolt.....I would not say they are crap, because all three of mine have been working awesome. As a matter of fact, with the superbolt for a regular mag(smaller id) I don't have any ball bobble. Meaning the next ball in the stack is barely rubbing against the bolt when it travels forward. I put a piece of paper over the feedneck when fireing and it stays there....no blowback. Even my superbolt with o-ring/ rounded tip works great.

In a perfect world, all paint would be the same size so that bolts and breaches could be made to almost never hit the next ball in the stack.

What is next, a Freak type system for bolts and breaches? Possibly an adjustable diameter bolt sleeve? How about a bolt tip that expands and seals off the breach when air is released, meaning it could be made smaller so that the next ball is never touched??

To be honest, I think there is a huge difference in the way the gun feels with a sb verses a regular steel bolt. Maybe it isn't that big of a deal, but it certainly feels smoother. Maybe the new design with slower bolt speed reduces recoil in itself with the steel bolt, so it would be like having the superbolt in a current setup?? Something we will all know in due time.

[AGD]

Guys,

If the ball breakage is really down the barrel then it is most likely from high bolt speed. The light weight superbolt is faster than the standard bolt so it causes more problems. We are still researching the issue. I will have a complete report when we are finished.

AGD

[Tunaman]

Originally posted by Thordic
My teammate, spacemanspiff, had a LOT of problems with his SFL breaking paint when he got it. The problem was the superbolt. He juryrigged a foamie onto it, and it helped quite a bit.

Check the bolt.

Hey! That was no juryrig...That was a custom Tunamod!

[hitech]

Originally posted by 2000Sabre
... it's hard to see other guys using other markers without these kinds of poblems.

A friend of mine was having the same feelings about his new angel. That said, the super bolt is harder on brittle paint because of the faster bolt speed. A SS bolt would probably help.