Something that bothers me - US Bombing

[speedballbanks]

rock on brotha lets do it oh yeah that was pretty funny about the sand truning into glass

that is fun to do to

[-J�ker-]

i dont think it was ben laden...hes all about car bombs...not flying planes into buildings....hes not about hijacking planes...

[pumpamatic]

Speedball, we can't exactly blame them for celebrating. They don't know the whole story. They have no freedom of speech, therefore they can't open up a newspaper and read how the U.S. is. Their government just puts the thought in their heads that America is bad. Who we can blame is their government.

[AGD-OfficeGal]

It would be better to stay away from name-calling like "towel-heads" - that's the beginning of racial hatred.

As for nuking "them," I have to agree with others who have posted that the use of nuclear weapons would be inappropriate due to the widespread danger from fallout.

Suppose Osama Bin Laden did give the orders that resulted in these attacks. Was this done because he wanted to, or was he hired? If he was hired, by whom? Man, I'd like nothing better than to see us charge off and blast the SOBs who did this - but first we have to be sure we have the right people.

I was pleased today by NATO's resolution saying the attack on the U.S. was an attack on all of NATO. Waiting to see what the U.N. has to say.

Marcia
AGD Front Office

[Chris]

Minimagrockin

If you think, for one second, that I am defending the people who did this...pull your head out of your butt and think again. My point was simply this; we need place blame solely where it belongs, not blame someone/something that has nothing to do with the situation. Columbine, we knew who did the crime, but had to put blame somewhere other than on the parents (we as americans can do no wrong in raising our kids), couldnt be that the kids in school drove them to shoot everyone (kids in school would never make fun/ostricise each other) but rather, we had to blame video games and singers. With this terrorist attack, we dont know who did it, but we are trying desprately to place blame. Some people are blaming the first people they see as suspects, without proof. We had no proof that playing video games started the columbine incident, and we have no proof that the arabs did this bombing. Somehow, both have been blamed for columbine and this attack respectively.

Do you now see why I said they were somehow related? It is not because the children from columbine orchestrated this terrorist attack, nor was it that the terrorists had anything to do with columbine. The only relationship is that people jump to conclusions as to who/what is to blame.

-Chris

[MinimagRockin']

I appreciate your elaboration on the subject, I see your point a little better. One thing though, I don't think the columbine crazies were "driven" by anyone. So kids ostricise and make fun....in no way does that make what they did even a little itty bitty bit more acceptable. There should be no excuses for the columbine nuts just as there should be none for the WTC whackos.

[pbtaz]

Eagle, I have to say that your comment was truely sick and twisted. I pray that you are not in the military or if you are that you are simply too young to understand what exactly you are saying.

I want blood just as much as any other American out there. Being in the military myself, I hope and pray that if we do get sent, I am one the ones called to go. This is not out of some macho "let's kill them all" trip. This is about justice for all those who died innocently.

However, I would never in my worst nightmares think about killing unarmed women, children, or men. Innocent people, no mattter what their beliefs or prejudices do not deserve to die. I agree that those responsible in any way must be erradicated. PERIOD. And I also understand that if we send in ground forces to do this that many innocent people will most likely be hurt or killed. This is not the goal however, it is a tragedy. War itself is not glamorous. It is not good, ever, even in this case. Sometimes however it is necesary. But even when it is necessary, one must try to never allow the horrors of war to affect those who are not involved. Even though this is not possible, it must be attempted to preserve what little shread of securtiy the local populace has.

If any of the troops in my command ever shot or shot at innocent people, or tried in any way to destroy the local ecology for the purpose of directly hurting the local innocent populace, I would ensure that they get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the UCMJ and tried as a war criminal.

[shartley]

i dont think it was ben laden...hes all about car bombs...not flying planes into buildings....hes not about hijacking planes...

[Chris]

Minimagrockin

Again, I am not making excuses for, nor condoning the actions taken by the columbine madmen. I am saying, very simply, that we need to put blame where it belongs. Examples of that were parenting, or the other children in school. Not the video games we all play. I have made no excuses for what they did, it seems to me though that all the people saying that marilyn manson music had something to do with it are. Before we all jump to conclusions in any situation, we need to know all the facts. Plain and simple.

-Chris

[MinimagRockin']

At columbine, I agree, we did place blame where it didn't belong (music, tv, movies) but in this case I don't see that happening at all. We don't know for sure who did it yet but all the fingers that are being pointed seem to be logical.

[Chaos]

Thank you Chris, you actually understood what I was saying unlike many others.

As for something being inspirational or not, its what you see in it not what someone tells you. The bible does not have one set 'inspiration' yet many people find it inspirational. I find Marilyn Manson inspiration, I dont find the bible inspirational, but thats what I feel. Therefor you saying Marilyn Manson is uninspirational and he has no talent is just concieded and pathetic :)

[Evil Bob]

Society wants to know "why" people do things...

Your girlfriend breaks up with you for no reason at all. You ask "why", maybe she just doesn't like you any more, maybe she doesn't want to tell you, but you still ask "why", you cry and you're irrational and in complete shock, and you need to find out what you did wrong if anything at all, driven from the heart, like a hurt animal, without any rational thought.

Look at Columbine, everyone wanted to know why those kids did what they did, so they grasped at straws, looked at what those kids like to do, and they targeted violent video games and rap music. Lets ignore the parents not teaching their kids to respect life, lets ignore the kids taking the time to make 20+ pipe bombs in the garage and the parents not knowing anything at all, lets ignore all the premeditation and planning and the time these kids put into their heinous act, and target tangibles that society would like to see gone in the first place. "They were being harrassed, they just had to lash out to be understood." It's all about excusism, pick something out you don't like and make it fit a heinous crime and explain it all away, hopefully some nutcase in a courtroom will pass a law that prohibits the use of that stuff you don't like. "Yeah, they did it because they thought they were playing 'Doom' for real." or "It was that wicked music they listened to, Satan made them do it." "Hey, we found this expert who says Doom can teach you to be a killer, this will do all kinds of damage, we'll win our case and get millions for sure!" "Can we say they were abused as children? That's always worked in the past...." "Did you find any hidden messages on the Marilyn Manson CD? We've got to get that in there somehow, he's just to wierd to pass up."

Watch the news, everyone is milling around in big crowds at the remains of the twin towers holding candle light vigils, and the media is in their face asking "why". Damnit, leave them alone, they're trying to come to terms with what's happened and make their peace, they don't need you in their face. The morons with the mic and the camera want to know "why", they keep asking people "why", society needs an answer, we have to know "why". Like emotionless robots they move from person to person stating the obvious. They film people leaping to their deaths from the 110th floor and show it distastefully on TV over and over again and ask "why would someone do that? What was going through his mind at the time he jumped?" They show us hour after hour the plane striking the second tower from every possible angle they can get film of. "Why would someone do this?" they keep asking us. And we sit and watch, like deer caught in headlights...

In Columbine, the answer to "why" was because the kids wanted to get revenge on those that had harrassed them and go out in a blaze of glory, but that wasn't sufficient for society, especially when there was money to be made in suing the video game and music industry, society wants a scapegoat, and they want to make money on it if they can. Obviously these kids aren't capable of doing things of their own accord, there must be an outside influence here, some reason "why". "They must have been temporarily insane or something. They're old enough to be drafted into the military, but not old enough to reason as adults and be held responsible for their own actions."

Yesterday, the answer to "why" was because someone wanted to kill Americans in the worst way, and using flying bombs fully loaded with fuel was the only way they could strike at Americans. They aimed at big targets that represent freedom, democracy, power, and financial security. Their "why" was to do as much damage to life and idealism as they could. The buildings they struck had only one weakness, air attack. The terrorist had tried a ground attack on the towers two years before, and it didn't get them very far. The twin towers had their own ventalation systems that were designed to prevent chemical and biological attacks from getting in, so that wouldn't work either. The garage had been beefed up since the previous attack came in through that way, no go there too, so the only way the terrorists could attack was from the air. Simple, fly a large 100 ton aircraft full of fuel into the building and make it collaspe.

Same with the Pentagon. It's even got a restricted air space over it where no one is supposed to fly. But you know what? You fly into it, you don't get shot down, you get yelled at and get fined, a good healthy slap on the wrist, be a good boy and don't do that again. You can't get near it on the ground, it's got it's own power, air, and water filtration systems, it's completely self sufficient, the only way in is to hit it from the air.

Is it me or is society in general a complete dumb shi*?

"Why" society asks. It's really simple, it was the only way they could attack and get the results they wanted. Same with Columbine, the kids threw pipe bombs and shot people, it was the only way they could get the results they wanted. The kids in Columbine hated the jocks and those that harrassed them, the terrorists hated America and what it represents. It's all about hate. Someone hates someone else. Someone hates how they're treated or how they dress or how they behave, or how they whorship, or how they live. I've traveled all over this Earth, I've seen seething hatred and murderous looks directed at me for no other reason than the fact that I hold a US passport. I hate you, so I'm going to lash out at you. "Those Americans, so successful in business, I hate them. So pushy worldwide, how dare they tell me I can't slaughter the Kurds or use them to test my chemicals munitions, who does the US think they are? If I want to invade Kuwait, they shouldn't stop me, they should mind their own business. What do they care, greedy nosy Americans. How dare they tell me I can't fly planes over my own airspace!"

Use your brain, think before you act, think things through, be part of the solution and not part of the problem. You now know "why", deal with it and get on with life.

Our founding fathers came to this continent in search of freedom and tolerance, to get away from people of hate and persecution. Here they created a society unlike any other on the Earth, with recognised inalienable rights for everyone. America is the envy of the rest of the world. We're resourceful, we're inventive, we're accepting, we're patient, we're filthy rich, we have all the good jobs, we make all the best films. But, like everyone else, we're human, and being human we have our weaknesses, we know it and we're trying to deal with it. We make mistakes just like everyone else. Yeah, we've got our problems, no one is perfect, but we're trying to better ourselves. The US is the place to be, you can do anything you want here, be as succesful as you want, its all up to you. You decide who and what you want to be, that's your choice to make, that's what freedom is all about.

So what is it about freedom that makes people want to blow us up when it would have been much simpler and easier to just join us?

Evil Bob

[MinimagRockin']

So you thinking Marylin Manson being inspirational is completely alright but if I think otherwise it is considered pathetic? That pretty much contradicts everything you just said in your last post. Also if he is inpirational to you that's fine, I believe you, but you should not refer to him as being inspirational to everyone, because I have a feeling many musicians (myself included) as well as many non-musicians would disagree with you. I feel he is a crappy performer who relies on novelties instead of talent to achieve fame while at the same time preaching complete garbage that for some reason kids believe.

[MinimagRockin']

Evil Bob you seem to be right on track but I would like to share a few different views:

1. All the tv coverage of this incident, I believe, is good. It is a form of propoganda that every country gets to see. If we didn't have those airplanes crashing on tape, our argument for retaliation would be weakend. It would still be worthy but with those terrible tapes of people jumping etc it shows people just how ****ed up these terrorists are.

2. This is the umpteenth time I have seen or heard someone say it's not music and video games we should be blaming the columbine incident but the parents of the kids or maybe it was because they were made fun of at school. This argument is just as ludicrous as blaming it on tv and video games. Your telling me that because the two columbine boys were harrassed at school it's a good justification for them to blaze into a school with an arsenal? I think not! As for them making 20 pipe bombs in their garage without getting caught is also not so difficult. Pipe bombs are relatively small, simple, and easy to make. Any kid with two working parents, some knowledge, and a hiding place could accomplish what they did without getting caught.

3. Last but not least (and I don't mean to nitpick) but using a flying bomb is not the ONLY way someone could strike at america, it is about the WORST and most destructive way someone could have struck america.