Vertical feed / PF question?

[blackdeath1k]

OK. We all grasp why the pf design was used back in the 90s. And why vert is so much better today. But I've been thinking a lot lately. Or at least the last few times I've played. When using a FF hopper. In my case a rotor. Does that added geometry angles the ball is being pushed down cause any potential issues?
First im using a classic original automagRT.

I find when I play with my old revolution that I chop a ball or 2 when I outshoot the hopper. Kinda a given. Otherwise no issues at all.

Now when using a rotor all bets are off with firing speed. But I feel like the geometry involved and the FF on the ball may cause inharrent drag in the feed speed that I wouldn't otherwise have with a vertical feed body? If this makes any sense? And thus cause hickupps at times sorta like outshooting a gravity fed hopper yet not exactly?

[Cyco-Dude]

it's a non-issue as far as i'm concerned. i've got plenty of reactive set-ups with powerfeed bodies that can do 20 bps (more than i'd ever use on the field) and use a spire. works just fine! so unless you are actually having issues, i wouldn't worry about it.

[blackdeath1k]

it's a non-issue as far as i'm concerned. i've got plenty of reactive set-ups with powerfeed bodies that can do 20 bps (more than i'd ever use on the field) and use a spire. works just fine! so unless you are actually having issues, i wouldn't worry about it.

The. "And thus cause hiccups at times". Would be the issues. Hard to explain.

I do own a few parabolic PF plugs. Then I've got the old original plug. I personally can't tell a difference in them in terms of performance.

[Cyco-Dude]

well, considering the gun you are using i'd say you have no real option for a vertical feed, unless you want to track down one of those limited-run vert-feed ule rt classic bodies (sorry, i forget the name of the dude that made them...brain fart!).

get a level 10 bolt if you're getting chops, or just shoot slower lol. if 20 bps is causing issues, try tuning it down to 12 bps and see. a 12 bps rope will work just as well as a 20 bps rope!

[blackdeath1k]

well, considering the gun you are using i'd say you have no real option for a vertical feed, unless you want to track down one of those limited-run vert-feed ule rt classic bodies (sorry, i forget the name of the dude that made them...brain fart!).

get a level 10 bolt if you're getting chops, or just shoot slower lol. if 20 bps is causing issues, try tuning it down to 12 bps and see. a 12 bps rope will work just as well as a 20 bps rope!

I guarantee I've never ran 20bps. Ha-ha. I'm not that hot fingered. I do use a shp reg. But its set at 900-950. I'd venture to say I've never shot over 10bps
XMT is who made the bodies BTW. Only reason I don't own one is I refused to give up my TL barrel.

And it's not really chops. Idk. Not sure how to explain. Hence why I asked the more generalized question. And then it could all be in my head.

As for the lack of swapping parts due to this in particular marker. That's nothing my machine shop can't fix.

[vintage]

i have had an occasional double feed using that Z2 i traded you for on my RT but it usually involves the level 10 kicking back and a second ball dropping in front of the bolt while the first is held in the nubbin.

[Cyco-Dude]

hmm...maybe post a video if that's possible? does it actually shoot a blank every now and then? 10 bps is no issue for a rotor in good working condition. perhaps try using a different loader and see how it goes?

[blackdeath1k]

Ha-ha. I actually dont have a L10 in this marker. My wifes RT has one. And my prototype rt ive been working on has one. But my trusty old classic RT does not. Double feeding is a whole different issue all together. And then the double feeding you speak of is yet another kind of double feed all together. I learned real quick with FF and a nubbin there is a fine line on getting proper function without balls getting pushed in the breach. My halo2 was always bad about pushing balls past the nubbin. I soved that issue for the most part by building up the back side of the nubbin some which makes it protrude a tad more and be a little more rigid in the breach. And actually if time permits tonight I'm gonna mill a second nubbin slot.

Hmmmmmmmm. How to really explain where my question comes from..... AND! You actually did give me something to think about. And it may still be a nubbin issue. I wonder if on occasion the FF is pushing a ball in somewhat past the nubbin. But not totally past. So not a double feed persay. But enough it is causing a hiccup of sorts. Whereas I keep thinking it would be in the transition at the pf plug. It may still be at the nubbin.

This new paint is a lot smaller in consistant OD than the paint I used back in the 90s.

Maybe I need to suck it up and try a new age ule body with ball detents and a cocker barrel.... Eh! The blasphemy....

[Tunaman]

I am pretty sure TK tested this and found the powerfeed to be just as fast if not faster than vertical feed...so it is a non-issue.

[blackdeath1k]

I am pretty sure TK tested this and found the powerfeed to be just as fast if not faster than vertical feed...so it is a non-issue.

I think you are correct. But was that before or after today's standard of FF hoppers?
And That's why I said above that it could still be a nubbin issue. Vintage reminded me of the issues I ran in to converting over to FF hoppers back 3 or 4 years ago when I started playing again. Maybe I've got rid of most of said issue. But not all of it. As the one stray pigmy ball could still be causing a slight ball detent issue. Just not enough of one for a blatent chop or double feed. It's really hard to trail down an anomaly when one can't even figure out how to explain it.

[Tunaman]

I think you are correct. But was that before or after today's standard of FF hoppers?
And That's why I said above that it could still be a nubbin issue. Vintage reminded me of the issues I ran in to converting over to FF hoppers back 3 or 4 years ago when I started playing again. Maybe I've got rid of most of said issue. But not all of it. As the one stray pigmy ball could still be causing a slight ball detent issue. Just not enough of one for a blatent chop or double feed. It's really hard to trail down an anomaly when one can't even figure out how to explain it.

You are correct in that there are so many variables to contend with. Try to find a reliable combo and stick with it.

[nak81783]

A few things from my experience.
1. I've used old style plugs, parabolic plugs, and even a straight angled Spyder plug in a pinch. They all perform the same IF the bottom side of the plug is inboard of the weld joint on the powerfeed. It's this spot that causes hiccups with force feed hoppers. This is my experience with about 5 or 6 different powerfeed bodies over the years.
2. I've seen HALOs slightly push powerfeed plugs out of the tube, which then leads back to my first item. When I finally realized what was happening, I simply pulled up the oring that covers the weld gap to the outside of the plug. It looks goofy, but it worked.
3. Concerning your small paint comment, I recently posted about detent issues with my X-Mag. Thought I had that figured out in the other thread, but even smaller paint was double feeding last time I used it. Finally had to just thread lock a detent in without an oring. That got the detent in far enough to to stop the double feeding with the .667 paint, and the thread lock was needed since there was no oring to keep it from vibrating out.

Forgot to mention that, other than the parabolic plugs, the others frequently need filing/sanding of the face that contacts the feed tube to allow it to sit in far enough to prevent what I described in number 1 above. It's way easier just to buy the parabolic plugs from Tuna, but I did the filing as proof of concept when I was trying to figure it out.

[maniacmechanic]

who in the heck is makin 667 paint ?

[nak81783]

Valken. I've bore-mic'ed my inserts, and they're spot on as marked. The paint was rolling right through my .670. Checked a few at home, and they averaged .667.

[Cyco-Dude]

Valken. I've bore-mic'ed my inserts, and they're spot on as marked. The paint was rolling right through my .670. Checked a few at home, and they averaged .667.

none of the valken i've shot this year or last measured anywhere close to that, and i've shot all sorts of valken paint. you must have some old or bad batches...that's not typical.