Brand New XMT Unibody.......The EVO!!!!!

[going_home]

That would mean dual detent covers....more machine time.....more money.

Hard to beat Axe detents....

[boo]

Yes, and not at all.

What I find strange is that for all the advancement (and Axe detents are plenty advanced and IMO the best spring-type detents on the planet), there is still nothing out there that can touch Tippmann style detents for overall blend of drop-dead simplicity, durability, function, and value.

Kind of curious that while most everyone has gone from one design to another, Tippmann has quietly been using the same style for more than two decades with great success. They haven't bothered to change it because, frankly, it is a nearly perfect design.

It makes all other one-piece models look positively imbecile by comparison. Come to think of it, it makes most other models of any kind look fairly imbecile by comparison. It doesn't need to appear clever or sophisticated because it just works. And if Tippmann ever goes out, it can be printed for next to nothing.

If you are going to use a pre-existing design and place bets on its being cheaply available in the future, that is the one.

Same could be said for wire detents, but they are ugly unless its on a nice vintage marker.

[Menace_AO]

Newp.

Wire breaketh and, in light of all we now know, is a demonstrably poor way to do detents unless you have only wire as a resource.

That is why AGD went away from it, and why vintage guns are the last vestige of that tradition.

Tippy detents haven't gone away because they are boringly, dependably, ineluctably functional.

Also they work well.

And are cheap.

And have a friendly orange color.

I will grant that for the sake of extra parts like covers the Axe variety would be best. I did note they are the best of that kind.

[TyeStick]

I really hope that using a alternative type of detent is a option for future Automag bodies that are to be released.

I really think it's time to step away from the Angel threaded detents. They're almost impossible to find locally. Scratch that. They're IMPOSSIBLE to find locally.

That means, having to order them online. At $10-$12 per a detent, plus shipping. Let's not forgot the waiting time for delivery as well.

I know there's more machining and cost associated with using other detents, but I think it's something that should be taken into consideration, or given as an option should the individual who is making the purchase chose to spend a little extra for a bit more of convenience.

[Laku]

J4 detent design looks pretty good btw.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1278921_538860612854183_511632661_o.jpg

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/p...ml#post2854227

But yeah, personally I'd prefer anything that is readily available and goes behind eye covers to make the body as sleek as possible.

[renie]

Eyecovers would hide the detent but still would need screws to hold them on so maybe a low profile detent instead?

[BigEvil]

The AGD design has worked perfectly since it came out. I don't see the need to change it. Axe detents are basically the same thing sans the threading.


#TOOMANYCHEFS

[dboggs79]

What about using a detent similar to the ASP detent mod used on a phantom? Simple, clean and hidden. No eye/detent covers or detent screwing up the lines of the milling.

[ScottyBeans]

The AGD design has worked perfectly since it came out. I don't see the need to change it. Axe detents are basically the same thing sans the threading.


#TOOMANYCHEFS

So what you're saying is we need a fully pneumatic detent that keeps the ball in place using super low pressure air on the front of the ball when chambered and automatically cuts out during the firing sequence via infrared sensor? Brilliant!!

[Xmagterror]

Ive never had a problem with the AGD detents. You just gotta set them so the bolt does not hit the detent body.
Pretty sure AGD will make them forever and when they dont i will make some.

[knownothingmags]

:rofl: but would be awsome

So what you're saying is we need a fully pneumatic detent that keeps the ball in place using super low pressure air on the front of the ball when chambered and automatically cuts out during the firing sequence via infrared sensor? Brilliant!!

[GoatBoy]

Wow didn't think I was going to sow so much discontent with my innocent little comment.

The AGD design has worked perfectly since it came out. I don't see the need to change it. Axe detents are basically the same thing sans the threading.

60% of the time it works every time!

It works when it works, but there is something seriously unreliable about either the design or the implementation that causes it to fail spectacularly, and there has been very little actual debug of the problem when it does.

I've seen guys at the field repeatedly blow detents out of their expensive new ULE bodies, and there are repeated reports of this online as well, and then everything turns into o-ring voodoo this and tighten or loosen that or buy these more expensive ones that still wind up doing the same thing.

The problem is way more nuanced than people give it credit for, and sometimes there are differences in internal geometries which aren't the detent's fault, but the detent which wasn't designed to take such differences into account winds up paying the price.

Sure, if you are the master of production and can tightly control tolerances on all your parts like Empire, then you can just make the one detent that works for that one implementation and it works fine.

But these aftermarket bodies are going into what is essentially a massive hodgepodge of different parts, all of which affect relevant geometries.

So what you're saying is we need a fully pneumatic detent that keeps the ball in place using super low pressure air on the front of the ball when chambered and automatically cuts out during the firing sequence via infrared sensor? Brilliant!!

Uh, well, you laugh, but minus the electronics because I don't like electronics... All that's necessary for this is for the bolt to hit the detent and actuate it before it hits the ball. Say if the detent were a long incline/lever, the front is the part that touches the ball, and the back is a ramp that touches the bolt in (possibly in the dead space between ball and bolt). The bolt has to push the detent out of the way in either case, but here the bolt can directly drive the detent, meaning you can have much stronger (reliable) detent contact with the ball without undue pain and suffering to the ball itself.

It's basically the inverse of the mechanical "eye" I proposed many years ago (and which one marker actually did sort-of implement).



Anyways, realistically, I don't see this getting fixed. The basic underlying problems:

1. People look to aesthetics first, and functionality second. It's all "what do the eye covers look like" this and "can I anodize it pink" that. What difference does it make if a gun can't actually shoot paint if it's just a wall-hanger anyways?
2. The little bastards are expensive. Which means manufacturers will be more than happy to make them and sell them to you. Yes, I will take your money for this little threaded aluminum thing, the spring, and this half-sphere thing! The markup on these things is FAAAAABULOUS!


My current recommendation is to move toward a Tippmann-style part. On the body, it's a flat slot milled, and then another flat milled outside of that. Put two of those in, one on each side of the body.

The upshot is the little guys are *adjustable*, because they should be 3d printable. Need one that's a little stiffer? Can do. Need one that sticks into the breech a little further? Can do. Need one exactly the same specs, but sits half a millimeter closer to the bolt? Can do. Need it half a millimeter further from the bolt? Can do.

With the current detents, you can't do jack monkey squat if something goes wrong except waste money and suffer. But I guess you'll look damn good while doing it.

[going_home]

But I guess you'll look damn good while doing it.

Thank you.

At least you know what MOTM is all about......

[Menace_AO]

J4 detent design looks pretty good btw.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1278921_538860612854183_511632661_o.jpg

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/p...ml#post2854227

But yeah, personally I'd prefer anything that is readily available and goes behind eye covers to make the body as sleek as possible.

You know, it's funny that you linked that pic and that conversation in MCB. I still haven't been able to get even a single hit on these fabled bridge-style detents. No amount of searching turns them up anywhere else.

We certainly have pics as Josh showed, but still no idea where one can actually put hands on them. The design looks great, and it may well be just as functional as Tippy-style, but if you cannot get them, it becomes a moot point.

[BigEvil]

I have been using AGD thread in detents since they came out.. I have had TWO blow out on me.. EVER. Then again, I guess I know what I am doing. I can't believe that this has become so complicated. It's a ball detent.. not cold-fusion.