Where did AGD go wrong?

[Nobody]

That is a loaded statement, but so where, no what caused AGD to loose marketshare or the masses. As we all know, a well tuned L10 will not chop paint unless the paint is horrible. In the speed game, the RT and subsequent ReTro/Emag/Xvalave all can achieve that same level of performance. So that is not a problem in comparison to other comparable guns of the era.

If you look at the history from the start of AGD to about 2000, basically after wide acceptance of electros on the top levels of professional play and then filtering down to the everyday players, AGD really began to loose people, loose marketshare and loose out on nearly everything. Yet by 2000, you had AGD mags not chopping paint, an electro versions and maybe other innovations that we all know. Yet, there was a decline in use and visibility. Yes, a lot of that has to do with the fickle nature of paintballers and the disposable cash era, which some companies were issuing guns/models every 2-3 years.

So i really want to know what the community thinks. I have my own ideas, but i do need more sources than myself. This is also not an admonishing of AGD, more so trying figure out the point where it happened. So please, indulge me in this. I do want to see what everyone thinks.

[Fred]

AGD never loosed anyone. Lost maybe.

Personally, I think it's because there was ZERO marketing hype. There was a stigma when I started playing that somehow AutoCockers shot farther than AutoMags... That was 1999.

Aside from the stray body change, Classic to Minimag, the evolution to the Classic RT body, and then finally to aluminum and the slugs in the mid aughts, the design never got sexy. Just a tube, that worked.

Still haven't seen anyone do a re-skinned valve that isn't a tube.

[alpha_q_up23]

Don't forget being banned in tournament play due to not being able to cap the rt, plus I don't think companies who make new electronic markers every year would like to see a team of 20 year old mags out shoot their newest marker

[Warwitch]

When you make stuff to last and dont care about candy coating your image this is what you get. A loyal following of die-hard fans. AGD didnt 'go wrong'.

[BigEvil]

[going_home]

The point where it went from incline to decline was with the c&d from smart parts.

The moustache behind the innovation lost interest when the deck became stacked.

That's not to say innovation couldn't start back up again.

What Tim is doing is a great start.

[JKR]

AGD didn't sell out, basically. In an era of rushing to the lowest common denominator with cheap electros made in China, AGD continued on its path of making quality, American made markers. The single greatest thing that killed AGD's electro and high end development was Smart Parts. The resulting lack of high-end markers from AGD undoubtedly took some wind out of the sails of the entire company so they fell back, regrouped and marketed to a niche that other manufacturers tended to run from.

Although the industry is in regression as far as sales go, I believe there is a strong and growing interest in quality paintguns. This obviously works to AGD's favor. Combined with a more aggressive marketing and sales campaign, I see AGD remaining viable and strong for a small, niche manufacturer for a long time to come.

[BigEvil]

Ive seen two things,

#1 - they move from steel to aluminum was too slow

#2 - Dealers abandoned them right around that time for reasons unknown to me.

[blackdeath1k]

Marketing,
Weight,
Tournament banning,
MARKETING!!!!!

And now expense plays a factor.

Back in the day before electros you had the mag and cocker. Mag was reliable but boring. Cocker was cool but finicky. I've owned a mag since 94ish. By 99 the mag was basically forgotten by the masses. Electros had taken over along with the cool back block of an autococker still being around. Mags have no gimmick. And basically no marketing.

I've recently bought 2 geo3s. One for me and one for my wife. Weight was the factor. I still own my classic RT hat I've had forever. But the weight finally got to me. My shoulder is junk. I started pricing what it would cost for a ule mag with xvalve. Compared that to a used geo3. The Geo made more sence since they were basically the same price point and from what I would tell the Geo is still lighter. The wife's Geo was purchased after playing a scenario game with her mag. Weight got to her and she finally decided something lighter would add to her enjoyment. Btw I do not use ramping at all. I still sit with the same 7-10 bps on my Geo that I ran on my mag.

I will say the Geo's have no soul. They are just function. Whereas mags have character. But when weighing my options I felt the Geo was the smarter buy. Only time will tell

[wetwrks]

Ive seen two things,

#1 - they move from steel to aluminum was too slow

#2 - Dealers abandoned them right around that time for reasons unknown to me.

My understanding was they quit licensing and selling thru dealers. That they thought they could do all the sales thru their store alone. That the few dealers (Tuna) were the remaining of the ones who had permission to sell their products and that no more were being added. I may be mistaken in that information but that is what I have heard for years. Frankly I would like to hear otherwise.

[dahoeb]

1) The design was too good. Theres not a lot that can be changed to make real meaningful improvements to the design. Most modern guns have plenty of room for some little tweaks and new milling here and there so they can market new changes and "improvements". Ofc if the e-mag was still being made, thatd open all kinds of options and possibilities for evolution.

2) Smarts parts.

3) many current paintballers are fickle with their fads and preferences changing almost seasonally.

[BLachance75]

Smart Parts and the tourney ban is what I think were the big problems. I think that innovation stopping after Tom left was the final nail. With nothing new and fancy coming out people lost interest.

[Spider-TW]

Not everyone appreciates quality. There was a large chunk of market that AGD was never going to get with that.

[Patron God of Pirates]

No longer being carried in stores hurt real bad. I remember X-Fire in Nashua pushing hard to sell me an RTP. A few months later they didn't carry them anymore and the same guy was telling me how bad they sucked. The stores sell what they have for sale and like it or not, even in the internet age, most peoples first advice on what to buy comes from a guy behind a counter or a kid on the field. Neither have Mags. Go into those stores now and they are pushing Mil-Sim garbage with all kinds of non-functioning accessories.

[pillage]

Changes in how the the paintball marketing was done pushed the Mag out of the limelight. Back in the the hey day of the Mag versus Cocker battle for paintball supremacy, there were virtually no kids playing paintball. It was pretty much an adult only activity. Those same adults had their own disposable income to spend on their fun and games. Once paintball became an equipment based baby sitting service funded by mom and dads credit cards, the cheap, light, and disposable gun became vogue. Enter the age of mass produced disposables like the Ion which flooded the market at the time ,and pushed the heavy old reliable guns out of the limelight. This in turn made the dinosaurs of paintball fall even further out of favor. The over production of the disposable gun, and the economic bubble combined to kill off lots of paintball businesses, which is where we are today. The irony of this situation is not lost on those of us that still have the AGD dinosaurs, as the disposables got chucked in the trash, while o-rings and oil continues to let us play with our toys even after spending years in a closet collecting dust.