new AutoResponse frame

[flampaint]

taking into consideration that there are a couple of very capable people making some pretty awesome frames currenlty (i.e. cougar20th, Luke, etc..), assuming they would be up to it AND that there's enough interest among everybody else here in order ot get this rolling: would it be be possible to make a "new" AR frame or are there patents or trademarks involved which would not make this possible?

just wondering

[Nobody]

Why?

By rules in competitive paintball, that mere 2 shots per pull would be a violation to the rules. So literally forget any mech leagues, and itbwould be only woods and target ranges. Also, the RoF aspect, it is superfluous as a Xvalve can easily get and surpass the RoF. Its also a rather expensive and niche product. Yes, a frame could be modded to use it, as the sear is where the action would be. A modded frame and new sear would be a much cheaper prospect than a new frame.

I may be wrong, but i really doubt that this even sparks an interest.

[rawbutter]

Is it possible? Yes. You can't patent ideas. You can only patent specific designs. So as long as you didn't just copy another design, I don't see a problem legally speaking.

And there are other designs. I've actually been thinking about this myself recently, and I have two design ideas that should work. Even a pneumatic version to help with the long, hard trigger pull. If I can figure out a new safety, I think I can actually even get it to be switchable. (If the safety is in the middle, it won't shoot. If it goes right, it shoots one ball per pull. But push left, and it shoots twice per pull.)

Now....is there a market for it? I don't know. I doubt it. I really agree with Nobody that there's not much point to it. If it was cheap enough, maybe it would sell okay. Or if you could design something that's a simple drop-in to an existing frame that a lot of people already have (the Intelliframe, for example). I think half the reason that pneumags are relatively common is that they're not really that expensive....or at least they're not as expensive as e-mag lowers or something like that. If you have the tools, you only need a $50 kit and a $15 LPR to make it work. So if you could do the same thing for an auto-response trigger, it might sell okay. I mean, you're not gonna get rich off it, but you might make your money back.

Maybe.









Okay...probably not.

[going_home]

Doug is right, they wont sell.

[flampaint]

I don't compete in any mech leagues so that is not an argument against this in my case. I simply like to be able to rip the way you can with an AR that is all.
But once again, I assume interest (ot rather, the lack thereof) would be the deal-killer in this case...

[caylegeorge]

I play at rec fields, and none of them allow anything but semi, including more than 1 shot per pull.

Seems like a small market to me.

[BigEvil]

AR frames are novelties now... you can actually shoot faster with a good ult set up. Also, the problem with making a 'new' autoresponse frame is that you would also have to reproduce the proprietary sear.

[rawbutter]

AR frames are novelties now... you can actually shoot faster with a good ult set up.

If you're experienced, then yes. But a good ULT or pneumag or even e-mag takes practice to walk the trigger faster than 8 or 10 bps. If you don't play that often and don't get to practice your finger twitching skills, then I think an AR frame can be faster and more reliable.

Also, the problem with making a 'new' autoresponse frame is that you would also have to reproduce the proprietary sear.

Maybe not.

This is the design I've been mulling over for a while now. (Forgive the simple drawing.) It relies on a rotating wheel that spins on a trigger pin inside the body of the frame. When the trigger is pulled, the wheel rotates clockwise and pushes the ball bearing against the sear arm, firing the marker. (I think a ball bearing would work best here, since it would spin against the sear and not rub and wear down.) Then when the trigger is released, the return spring pulls the wheel counter clockwise, pulling the ball bearing against the sear arm a second time and firing the marker again.

AS frame design.jpg

Obviously, proper placement of everything is really important. Also, I think the bottom left corner of the sear arm would need to be rounded off. Otherwise the ball bearing will jam. But I think the design has promise.

Also, like I said before, if I redesign the safety, I think I can make the frame switchable between semi and auto-response. If one safety setting stops the wheel right as it engages the sear, then when the return spring pulls back, it won't fire twice.

[Nobody]

If you're experienced, then yes. But a good ULT or pneumag or even e-mag takes practice to walk the trigger faster than 8 or 10 bps. If you don't play that often and don't get to practice your finger twitching skills, then I think an AR frame can be faster and more reliable.



Maybe not.

This is the design I've been mulling over for a while now. (Forgive the simple drawing.) It relies on a rotating wheel that spins on a trigger pin inside the body of the frame. When the trigger is pulled, the wheel rotates clockwise and pushes the ball bearing against the sear arm, firing the marker. (I think a ball bearing would work best here, since it would spin against the sear and not rub and wear down.) Then when the trigger is released, the return spring pulls the wheel counter clockwise, pulling the ball bearing against the sear arm a second time and firing the marker again.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]93546[/ATTACH]

Obviously, proper placement of everything is really important. Also, I think the bottom left corner of the sear arm would need to be rounded off. Otherwise the ball bearing will jam. But I think the design has promise.

Also, like I said before, if I redesign the safety, I think I can make the frame switchable between semi and auto-response. If one safety setting stops the wheel right as it engages the sear, then when the return spring pulls back, it won't fire twice.

That is a Rube Goldberg. Yes, it mitigates the use of the AR sear, but that kind of mechanism is far from being reliable oreasily implemented.

For that, i say prove me wrong. But looking at it, it would not be as easy as it is drawn...

[flampaint]

[Nobody]

Given enough money, anything is possible. But bear in mind, your exacting clarity to prefection of yester year is ambitious yet expensive. If you consider old or classic cars the same to paintball equipment, lots of parts got hacked, yet those that didn't means they are more valuable.if you are wishing to redo the wheel, then it will be expensive. I have only ever seen/dry fired 1 AR frame. Many here have never seen one and if they did, there are chances that it might not have been hacked or gutted. So the desire is like wishing to see a wolly mammoth. They existed but doesn't mean they need to come back again.

Put a feeler post. See if you can even get the sniff at this. You might be surprised at who would want one(granted at no price listed, or put $500 new to make-wouldn't be out of the question for a small run), you won't know till you find out. This post is just to say why it wouldn't be a good idea. With this out of the way, see who could want one.

[bowcycle]

I think raw's idea could work as a drop in built off the bracing in an unmodded intelliframe.
Getting the geometry right will be tricky, but the idea has potential.

[Patron God of Pirates]

As long as we're not concerned with the rules, why not forgo the trigger in that design altogether. Just slap a hand crank on that wheel and ad 4 or 5 extra studs

[rawbutter]

As long as we're not concerned with the rules, why not forgo the trigger in that design altogether. Just slap a hand crank on that wheel and ad 4 or 5 extra studs

Someone beat you to it.

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/misc/firestorm_crank/

[blackdeath1k]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...71on7eNJLhDjfA.

How bout this crank gun at PaintballToGo....