The lost decade of Paintball

[Nobody]

Outstanding post! One comment, which is more of a nit-pic...

I made reference in an earlier post to the "incestuous" nature of the industry. Most of the manufacturers were/are also the tournament promoters. (if not officially, which often was the case too, even when unofficially they were still the main source of the funding and therefore had enormous influence) Heck most of the "manufacturers" started off as or became players and many also owned league teams! This influence also extended to the paintball "media". APG and the other sport rags existing not on sales/subscriptions, rather on advertising revenue. Considering that, who led who on the trends that steered things to the final destination?

Otherwise I agree with everything stated!

-Calvin

And their is the crux. You have people through contacts back them to do these things because you want to showcase your talent, your product, your wears. Regardless if you carried for tourney paintball, seeing other teams use the same gun made everything relevant, because it would promote sales (hopefully), which means the business glcan grow, and even expand. 20 years ago, the businesses were specific. AGD made guns, aair America made tanks, a lot of people made barrels.

So again, what is the best best way to show off paintball was the speedball game. Lots of people, real prizes, organized teams, the whole image. Yes, camo was looked down upon, especially coming out of the 80s and the look of paramilitary. So teams wanting to stand out, to get exposure went to motorcross for jerseys, pants and gloves (JT USA and Scott both started in motorcross) because there was nothing else. Then in the past 20 years, the players saw what wprked and didn't and hoped to impliment new paintball specific products to address what was missing or to improve upon an idea. Cause who is better at judging what wprls, a person in an office that never played pr a player that is out there? But i diegress...

And again, if you want to change how the game is evolved with the younger, next generation players. Take them under your wing. Spend a day with them, play games with them, lend them a mag and use their rental or even use a rental yourself and show them first hand, how to play, how to act, how to move. You get 2 kids doing that, and then they get 2 each and you have a pyramid effect of better play.

And here is were speedball is a benefit. It is in an enclosed area, you can be on the sideline, telling your players directly what to do so they can learn. Run 2 games of 5 man ball with you coaching both teams, you truly effected 10 people in about 20min. And if one or 2 kids take that advice and start to do better, it will cascade down. Monkey see monkey do.

But again, playing speedball and ahowing Speedball are 2 totally different things. Televising paintball was a pipe dream to legitimacy on the grand scale, to be equals with everyone else. The little kid trying to be like the big kids. Everyone does it, nothing wrong with thst. Its just paintball as a whole needs to decide where it wants to be. Yes, woods ball will forever be a part of the game, but that is not the only way. Till someone has a brainstorm on a new concept for the game, different that air or woods ball, those are the 2 styles we have.

As for being lost? Every business, every sport, every concept goes through expansion and contraction. Pro sports looses teams (or did, now they just pull up tents and relocate to a new city), popularity waxes and wains and interests come and go. The good thing is that the companies that are still around had enough good products to keep in business. Companies that were only in it for a quick buck quickly lost out and folded. The bad is that a lot of good companies did fold and are no longer around, which did provide competition, spurring the need to never keep static and to keep pushing forward.

So we all have to go play. Support the good fields, tell those good fields what keeps you coming back there. Hell, even work with the foeld in starting up a mini game, like rental day (1/2 prices for rentals, where you are playing, teaching them to get more involved in the game). Not only can you bring in new blood to yiur field, but also get in good with field.

Paintball is what you make of it, whether it is the guns, the style, the clothing, the game or whatever. You get as much as you put into it.

[uv_halo]

[cledford]

Run for President of anything and you've got my vote! Seriously, another great post.

-Calvin

You are so firmly entrenched in the tournament / speedball scene that you see the entirety of paintball through it. My point is that for every benefit you claim that speedball brought to paintball, I can point out a negative aspect that has had an impact on the players on the recreational field.

Speedball and the tournament scene drove the BPS/ROF war. This led to recreational fields covered with double finger electros that easily (and often do) shoot faster than the guns used by renters and new players, all of this contributing to the fallacy of the “Semi Auto Only” rule*.

You make the assumption that paintball needed to be shown off when you assert that speedball and the tournament scene did this. For all of the visibility- even after 20yrs, the vast majority of non-paintball players don’t expect folks running around on astroturf into inflatable geometric shapes. And the bad- it glamorized bunkering and overshooting to younger, more impressionable, attractees and justified bad behavior for those old enough to know better.

As for ‘players’ driving growth- yes, look at all of the products that were specifically developed for one particular niche in paintball (that while smaller, they were certainly more vocal). The vast majority of them released over the last 30yrs were all about giving players the ability to shoot more paint, faster and to make you ‘look good’ while doing it. Very few products were about allowing players to have more fun (a notable exception, SpecOps Paintball products never improved the performance of any gun, they changed the look and feel of the guns). MagFed paintball was all about having more fun (since before FS came around, they were definitely not giving themselves a performance improvement).

You’re statement about changing the game and kids is true for all varieties of paintball so, I won’t address that. To be clear, I'm not against kids in paintball- I'm against changing the game to accommodate them but rather, bringing them into a game played by, and for adults.

Speedball formats that allow for sideline coaching contribute to reduced tactical thinking/awareness of the players, seriously encourages direct, head-on firefighting (which raises the cost of play), and makes the game less about a players ability to communicate and work with their teammates, and more about their ability to move and shoot as directed. Speedball formats in general (and tournaments especially) do not allow for tactical variety, encourage more shooting, encourage the use of full body padding (i.e. bounce shirts, bounce hats, padded jerseys and pants plus shin and forearm pads), and for players to keep shooting until a ref pulls them in the hopes of a 1 for 1.

You might say, in pursuit of the pipedream, paintball was changed, and as I illustrate above, it was not for the better. I argue that if speedball hadn’t been so aggressively pushed, the paintball game experienced by most players (i.e. recreational first timers) today would be a lot different. We would probably see more scenarios (meaning more ‘mission’-based games, but not necessarily military/tactical nor big), and we would have seen more MagFed and MilSim products (and even further evolved than what we have now) and even a successful shaped projectile at least a decade earlier (that's really where my interest lies). We very well could see fewer paintball fields due to geography but, I would argue that the remaining fields would be a lot better at providing an experience. Also, the age demographic would shift to a somewhat older (i.e. disposable income) group.

[Nobody]

Wow, you totally misread everything i have wrote...

You are so firmly entrenched in the tournament / speedball scene that you see the entirety of paintball through it. My point is that for every benefit you claim that speedball brought to paintball, I can point out a negative aspect that has had an impact on the players on the recreational field.

I like speedball and the last tournament i played in was like in 2003, 3 man. Every game i have played since then has been in the woods. And i am not saying it is a golden child with no faults, aside from opinions, but there is a majority that do only speedball.

Faster guns, shoot more paint, the quicker you go through your paint, the more paint you will need. When the RoF wars were happening, the entire industry went headlong into it. Faster (albeit more consistent) guns, better packs and of course better loaders to keep up with those guns. Anyone can shoot 40bpz, but feeding that fast needs another piece. And with the RoF, paint sales is what fields got money from and rightly so. You can't play paintball without it, its in the name. And at least now with harder rules and better tech to catch people going above 13.3 or lesser RoF, where do you see the speed at? In the woods...

Yes, at the time where it was trying to break through to mainstream, it needed the push. Hindsight says it was stupid, but you don't learn if you don't try. But, is it the game that did the bunkerings or was it the people who did those heinous acts? But also, in any of the televised games, how many vicious bunkersing or even older players bunkering kids are shown? None, cause in a tournament, you wont just have lambs for the slaughtering. Again it is the fields, and their job to separate the wheat from the chaff and the refs to see that players doing a move on a unprotected kid for his and everyone's safety.

.

Speedball dominated the culture in way of sales. Look at the Tac-one from AGD or the WGP tactical cocmer, or more recently, the Blast G6 tactical. How many of them do you see? On big games i see all sorts of guns, mostly speedball guns and pumps, but there are some around, just way in the majority. I see speedball type guns because of better efficiency, better shot and faster. I am one to not dictate what someone should use in any game, cause for myself, i may want to use my Axe, or my Ego06, DM4, B2K or for the hell of it classic mag that day. Do not try to fit people i to what you perceive as to what they should use or buy.

Why not? They are smaller, not as strong, not as smart (how many times must you tell them to keep a mask down, but on a barrel sock, etc), but without them, the sport won't grow. You need to start the seed, grow the seed, then you can reap the seed. But the key is for you or anyone to not look upon them like targets, but to show them how fun it is and to keep them coming back.

Speedball formats that allow for sideline coaching contribute to reduced tactical thinking/awareness of the players, seriously encourages direct, head-on firefighting (which raises the cost of play), and makes the game less about a players ability to communicate and work with their teammates, and more about their ability to move and shoot as directed. Speedball formats in general (and tournaments especially) do not allow for tactical variety, encourage more shooting, encourage the use of full body padding (i.e. bounce shirts, bounce hats, padded jerseys and pants plus shin and forearm pads), and for players to keep shooting until a ref pulls them in the hopes of a 1 for 1.

I am talking about coaching, not hand holding them so where they do not learn. Tell them what to look for and encourage free thought on what and how to look. It takes someone years to understand it, but if you want movement and headsup awareness, then you must teach it, you must explain what and how. Hell, i can tell you at my size(6'1", 280lbs+) that i will move quick and up the field, generally breaking the back of the opposingteam. I can not tell you how i do it, but its understanding the moment. That can not be taught, but you can with after talks and coaching from a game, on how you need to think multiple moves ahead. That is coaching.

And you are a fool to think that there is no movement in speedball. From the horn, you hqve both teams fanning out trying to get angles. The problem is, and it has been shown many times of playera just blasting away for no reason at each other's bunkers. That is wrong and stupid. They have not been coached well. To only rely upon your gun to get them in or out is poor play. You need to teach players situational awareness, how to get out of a bad spot and what to do when you are being targeted. Again teaching not just letting the run game after game.

In soeedbqll, you should have snap shooting drills, target acquisition drills, movement drills, breakout drills and running 5v3, 4v2, and 2v1 games all before they play together as a team. If you donnot instill understanding how movement is important, then you lost the game.

Well, i played in the era of 24hr games, scenerio and big games. They are not always fun. You can and do have teams that love it, but you also have teams that come and go shoot people. The biggest problems are, having talent for writing the script, gaining interest to play, but more importantly having the right time to do it. You have to commit a weekend, get with your friends and balance all those schedules. And in the era of social media, you have to literally skate your claim on a date and hope that no other event happens near there to get the people. Have it to close to huge events like Living Legends, no one shows. Hqve it too early in the year, the weather is bad. Too late, schools are in, vacations and holidays are booked. Hell, i would love to get up to Reaperball, but something always comes up with work, injuries or sickness.

But what i am getting at is more to the fact that, with all your disdain towards speedball, i am not hearing anything about supporting new players or more and better woods ball events. When my friend's tell me of a game that i should go out to to help support it i do. I try to make a positive contribution. Yes, i have opinions (do not get me started on Living Legends), if asked i will give them, but i work within the sport in whatever capacity i can. So i show up, offer to ref or be staff when my field needs bodies or just play.

[Sandman]

LOL, Smart Parts created a small disturbance, hardly a blip.
You guys really think the decade decline in paintball is really over a speedball versus woodsball battle? Hmm...interesting...
Good to get perspective on what the consumers are thinking. An interesting read.

[Nobody]

Honestly, i think any decline was more to the fact that the weekend warriors that had surplus cash went away. As they grew up and became reaponsible (through families, new jobs, or new fads) and the one thing that they could drop was paintball. Paintball has always been a friend sport/game. Without friends, paintball is boring and only dedicated people still play. I went through that when my first team and friends moved away from paintball, and my closest field shut down because he had to go back to a real job.

Through the game, people will find their niche on what they like and what they play. Whether it is pumps, semi, electro; whether it is walk on, big game/scenario or speedball; whether it is individual, friends or a team. Everyone will go through a period where paintball isn't as important as it once was. Life does get in the way. Have a baby, that case of paint turns into a case of diapers. Saving up for the latest and greatest gun you want, turns into saving up for that ring or house. That is life.

The biggest thung we as a community, not just here in this forum, but as a whole is to support the game we still love and play. To a point, as long as you are playing paintball, that is the only thing that matters. When i see a teenager with a box store, bubble pack paintball set, i will try to help themb whether it is orings, tech help or just taking them under my wing and show them that if you spend more wisely on a better mask, you can see better, if you spend on a barrel, you can shoot straigher or if you want to go deeper, that box store special is not the greatest and to get a better quality gun. I don't make fun of those people, they are the future. I want to make sure that that future stays playing. Paintball without friends is boring, but paintball without players is dead.

And it being lost? No, paintball was never lost, it just needs to adjust to the times and of the modern player. Paintball has always changed, albeit slowly or reluctantly from 1989 to 1999 to 2009 to today. You just hqve to be accepting of the change.

[uv_halo]

… I like speedball and the last tournament i played in was like in 2003, 3 man. Every game i have played since then has been in the woods. …but there is a majority that do only speedball.

This is exactly my point- Most people who play paintball today, are actually playing speedball, just on surfaces other than astroturf. Even in the majority of ‘woodsball’ fields where there are bunkers every 15ish feet, with small field sizes, short time limits, and limited end goals (i.e. only capture the flag, or elimination), the game is still effectively speedball.

…And with the RoF, paint sales is what fields got money from and rightly so. You can't play paintball without it, its in the name. And at least now with harder rules and better tech to catch people going above 13.3 or lesser RoF, where do you see the speed at? In the woods...

The problem isn’t really about ROF (my favorite games were on a field that allowed uncapped full auto). It’s more about how the industry allowed and encouraged higher rates of fire while hiding behind the “Semi Auto Only” rule. The tournament scene drove the ROF up all the way until they had to start pulling it back in an attempt to keep people in it. Before the tournament scene even reached this point, when the fields switched to speedball (incl. speedball in the woods), it only made sense for folks to bring those speedball innovations onto the recreational field. The fields allowed it even as they made the playing areas smaller, and increasing the number of bunkers. This all while renting out guns with 6-8BPS and, including in the safety brief “semi-auto only” and then letting them run against someone laying a rope.

… But, is it the game that did the bunkerings or was it the people who did those heinous acts?

Here is why I say the game is at least complicit: The speedball format was specifically designed to allow for more close range interactions (because it’s more entertaining to watch). When the locations of the opposition is known, and all of the structures are within 10-20ft, this allows for one to close before making a dash on a player before anyone else can effectively stop it (given reaction and paintball flight times). In a natural environment, this rarely happens because the cover is not distributed evenly. Also, I’m fairly certain the term originated in the tournament scene and, over the years I’ve seen dozens if not hundreds of video clips of tourney players getting bunkered- this isn’t something happening just to new, ‘lambs to the slaughter’ players. When these field formats migrated to the woods, this tactic came with them. This drove some fields to implement the awkward (at best) 20ft rule in response.

Speedball dominated the culture in way of sales....

This is simply as inaccurate as all get out. It’s common knowledge that in terms of sales, Tippmann has dominated the market in sales volume, and I’m not even including the rental fleets. However, even though the guns work fine, folks often move up in the performance/price index if they stick around. The number one motivation is for ROF (lightweight , double finger trigger) which on the speedball field (incl. those in the woods) makes sense (good for laning/suppression), then comes size/weight (good for getting in tight to a bunker and, good for sprinting), then comes efficiency (to support the ROF). All of these choices make perfect sense for the given field format but, make some, but less sense for other formats.

Why not? They are smaller, not as strong, not as smart (how many times must you tell them to keep a mask down, but on a barrel sock, etc), but without them, the sport won't grow. You need to start the seed, grow the seed, then you can reap the seed. But the key is for you or anyone to not look upon them like targets, but to show them how fun it is and to keep them coming back.

Why? Generally, their interest is fickle, they don’t have the maturity, and they are relying on their parents/guardians for funding and, they are subject to their parents opinions (i.e. poor Johnny tried to rush across an open field with seven people shooting at him, Mommy doesn’t like those bruises, regardless of what Johnny thinks). I’m not saying they should be banned from the field (there are those who the previous generalities don’t apply and should be welcomed) but, rather the game should be focused on those who are 18+, and parents shouldn't be using the field as their daycare (dropping the kids off for the staff and other patrons to deal with).

I am talking about coaching, not hand holding them so where they do not learn

You’re talking about idealized, virtuous coaching, that you claim to do, I’m talking about what is typically seen. I can’t count how many times I’ve heard the sidelines yelling “Snake” because some player got in there and started moving up the field without the opposition noticing. That's not about 'training' that's about winning.

And you are a fool to think that there is no movement in speedball….

I never, ever said once that there is no movement in speedball. It’s precisely the opposite as I illustrated above.

Well, i played in the era of 24hr games, scenerio and big games. They are not always fun…

I’m not advocating that every game should be any of those game types. What I’m talking about is a recball day that is more about the experience rather than the shooting. In discussions of 'old school' I'm not saying we need to reproduce that experience but rather, evolve it and put more effort into it.

But what i am getting at is more to the fact that, with all your disdain towards speedball, i am not hearing anything about supporting new players or more and better woods ball events...

I haven't discussed it for several reasons- one, those things are true no matter which format or variety of paintball we're talking about. At my local fields, I often dispelled myths, gave advice, and I often gave new players the lay of the land. Even though I rarely have pictures of me taken at the field, here's a picture of me doing just this:

i-WR4c9Vc-L.jpg

I advocated for shaped projectiles as they bring a new dimension to woodsball both at the ASTM and, at every field within a 50mi radius of myself, and I did this entirely out of my own pocket. On the field, I pointed out that while I had increased range and accuracy, I had limited ammo and, I'm actually at a disadvantage at close range. I published my ballistics data for the entire internet to see, dispelling myths and providing folks with tangible information to improve their game, especially with first strike rounds.

I'm not in a position financially, or temporally to run an event. I was largely voting with my dollars when Cossio and other insurance groups banned first strike rounds. I'm glad to say that the tide is finally turning and I look to get back to the field soon.

LOL, Smart Parts created a small disturbance, hardly a blip.

You guys really think the decade decline in paintball is really over a speedball versus woodsball battle? Hmm...interesting...

Good to get perspective on what the consumers are thinking. An interesting read.

I don't believe that it's the whole story but it is a significant component, especially when I saw the growth of airsoft, the decline of tournament ball, and the more recent growth in MagFed paintball (outside of shaped projectiles).

Honestly, i think any decline was more to the fact that the weekend warriors that had surplus cash went away. As they grew up and became reaponsible (through families, new jobs, or new fads) and the one thing that they could drop was paintball. Paintball has always been a friend sport/game. Without friends, paintball is boring and only dedicated people still play.

The economic downturn has had an impact on all recreational activities- this doesn't account for Airsoft's growth in the same timeframe though.

I think you hit it right on the head (and I've known plenty of folks my age who have quit over the years for precisely this reason): Paintball (as in it' s current, speedball dominant format) is boring. Just as PGOP put it- poor game design leads to “single best strategy” which I contend, ultimately leads to boredom.

[cockerpunk]

i would argue that this is what paintball is. its not speedball, its paintball. the effective range of a big, light, ball are such that the effective range is only 50 feet with any accuracy, and beyond that its a volume game. in that way actually the electronic marker has actually INCREASED effective range, and anyone playing with a pump versus electros in the woods knows what im talking about. the volume a modern electro can spit out increases effective range dramatically compared to the effective range of a pump gun.

anyway, i mean look back to woodsball before there was "speedball" ... it was just speedball in the woods. look at the torunaments of the 1990s, just "speedball in the woods" .... which is what paintball just is.

the change came when we were freed of the round ball.

then paintball could evolve into more than just paintball. sadly, normal paintball is expensive enough as is, tripling or more the cost of each shot fired doesn't seem to help that, even if that is only a perception difference.

[vintage]

back when i started in the early 90's it was woods ball and woods ball with structures at our only field. games were 15 minutes because the field owner wanted to get his rental people in as many games as possible in their 4 hour session and he also stated it was better for rental players and newbies that were shot out early if they did not have to sit around for 25 to 30 minutes waiting on the next game. i have never played "true" speedball and never wanted to it just is not my thing. i was out of paintball by the time of the sp patent fiasco and missed that and the whole rof wars and the intro of electronic markers. i have not played walk on games since i have been back so i really don't know how they are running things these days around here. i will say that having taken an fs round to the head i don't think they should be allowed on the field with rentals and really don't like them at all. i want to play round ball not long range tag.

[Patron God of Pirates]

I'm inclined to agree with CP here. I think it was the nature of the ball shaped the nature of the game. Speedball tactics are still the best strategy in the woods once the shooting starts. I haven't played with or against FS rounds, but I'm thinking the increase in accuracy at range would have to be pretty damned dramatic for it to have any real impact on how the game is played. Accuracy by volume and accuracy by proximity > accuracy by aiming. I'm also not sure it would make the game more fun. I'd personally rather get bunkered with a chance to wheel on somebody then get long balled from deepest darkest nowhere.

Again, back on the theme of personal preference. I do hope that FS rounds make inroads to the point where it's a variable that you have to worry about "where is that guy with the long gun?" before making a move. What I'd hate to see is those guys all over fields with little cover playing camp and plink.

[uv_halo]

i would argue that this is what paintball is. its not speedball, its paintball. the effective range of a big, light, ball are such that the effective range is only 50 feet with any accuracy, and beyond that its a volume game. in that way actually the electronic marker has actually INCREASED effective range, and anyone playing with a pump versus electros in the woods knows what im talking about. the volume a modern electro can spit out increases effective range dramatically compared to the effective range of a pump gun.

anyway, i mean look back to woodsball before there was "speedball" ... it was just speedball in the woods. look at the torunaments of the 1990s, just "speedball in the woods" .... which is what paintball just is.

the change came when we were freed of the round ball.

then paintball could evolve into more than just paintball. sadly, normal paintball is expensive enough as is, tripling or more the cost of each shot fired doesn't seem to help that, even if that is only a perception difference.

Damnit- I had a fairly lengthy post that got deleted because the forum auto-logged me off (WTH is up with that?). That being said, let's see if I can summarize:

Yes, the vast majority of paintball today is 'speedball in the woods'.

No, I don't think it's just the projectile. The game format changed and had a foothoold before it's first televised game in 1991.

The game format I'm talking about here is:
Small field sizes (often small enough to clearly see the opposition before the start but, nearly always small/clear enough to prevent concealed flanking)
Short game times (15-20min tops)
Bunkers every 10-20ft
Limited win solutions (i.e. elimination, CTF, etc)

These changes were largely driven by the paintball media and industry types by telling players that the 'end game' was on the tournament field, and telling owners that they could make more money in paint sales. Sure it works but, it restricts the game to the act of shooting which, isn't sustainable. The vast majority of folks get bored with it and move on. Most of us here are the exceptions (with myself nearly quitting and selling me gear 2x already).

I'm inclined to agree with CP here. I think it was the nature of the ball shaped the nature of the game. Speedball tactics are still the best strategy in the woods once the shooting starts. I haven't played with or against FS rounds, but I'm thinking the increase in accuracy at range would have to be pretty damned dramatic for it to have any real impact on how the game is played. Accuracy by volume and accuracy by proximity > accuracy by aiming. I'm also not sure it would make the game more fun. I'd personally rather get bunkered with a chance to wheel on somebody then get long balled from deepest darkest nowhere.

Again, back on the theme of personal preference. I do hope that FS rounds make inroads to the point where it's a variable that you have to worry about "where is that guy with the long gun?" before making a move. What I'd hate to see is those guys all over fields with little cover playing camp and plink.

At the individual level, yes, speedball tactics work but what I'm talking about is how the game format itself was changed to get the most profit out of the projectile. In other words, focus the game on the shooting and, encourage lots of it.

As for FS rounds- I would like to see a game that would include them but, not require them (either explicitely or, having them as the single best solution). The absolute worst scenario in my mind is simply a larger speedball field with everyone laning, snapshooting, and using accuracy by volume at the longer ranges that FS afford.

In my opinion, fields need to stop looking to paint sales as their primary revenue, and to provide players with an experience through better game design. I think there are several approaches to this. Some of the stuff I've seen at one of my local fields has almost been like mini-scenario games in 30min- i.e. capture the defenders flag but it must only be brought back via the bridge and, there are re-spawns (every 4min for the defenders, and 2min for the attackers). That's not a whole lot different but, it's quite a bit more fun to play.

[cockerpunk]

Damnit- I had a fairly lengthy post that got deleted because the forum auto-logged me off (WTH is up with that?). That being said, let's see if I can summarize:

Yes, the vast majority of paintball today is 'speedball in the woods'.

No, I don't think it's just the projectile. The game format changed and had a foothoold before it's first televised game in 1991.

The game format I'm talking about here is:
Small field sizes (often small enough to clearly see the opposition before the start but, nearly always small/clear enough to prevent concealed flanking)
Short game times (15-20min tops)
Bunkers every 10-20ft
Limited win solutions (i.e. elimination, CTF, etc)

These changes were largely driven by the paintball media and industry types by telling players that the 'end game' was on the tournament field, and telling owners that they could make more money in paint sales. Sure it works but, it restricts the game to the act of shooting which, isn't sustainable. The vast majority of folks get bored with it and move on. Most of us here are the exceptions (with myself nearly quitting and selling me gear 2x already).

i think that rather well proves my point, it wasnt speedball that changed the game to that format, it has been that format since long before speedball was ever a thing. frankly, the early 1990s is pretty much the start of the whole thing (i know not strictly speaking, but broadly speaking).

maybe you would have enjoyed the survival game more than paintball?

[uv_halo]

i think that rather well proves my point, it wasnt speedball that changed the game to that format, it has been that format since long before speedball was ever a thing. frankly, the early 1990s is pretty much the start of the whole thing (i know not strictly speaking, but broadly speaking).

maybe you would have enjoyed the survival game more than paintball?

So, I dug into the first two APGs I ever owned ( July, and October 89, I had to re-purchase them a few years ago) as I remembered reading articles that simply don't make sense if they were written with today's 'speedball in the woods fields'. I found them. Articles describing allowing a team to pass you so you could backshoot. Another talking about a team moving in a V formation 20yds across before spreading to a line 100yds across. One article, referencing a "downed pilot" game, and finally, the benefits of having folks in reserve.

More interestingly, in my October 89 issue, there's an article by Russel Maynard, titled "The Premier Speedball Tourney... Paintball Becomes a Spectator Sport". It hypes up what speedball is and talks about how it is 'better' than paintball in the woods. The article goes on to state that speedball's origins date back the “fall of '87” when the staff at SC Village were looking for a way to stage paintball for TV coverage. They eventually got their field setup, and had their first event in the spring of 89 (without TV coverage though). The article describes an oval playing arena roughly 30 by 50yds, and obstacles that offer minimal protection of the players but maximizes the view of the audience.

Now for my personal experience-. I started playing 'outlaw' as my friends and I had limited means to get across the valley to a commercial field. I joined the navy, went through boot camp, and got some time to go home in the summer of '92. During this outing, a friend and myself went to one of the local fields that had been around a few years- “Fields of Honor”. We played several large format games during the day(which were big enough that I never even saw the opposition's starting areas). At the end of the day, the staff introduced those who remained (about 30 total) to their “new speedball” field. It was a flat, non-wooded piece of terrain with a bunch of pallets on end surrounded by a low ridge on three sides. They set everyone up on opposing ends of the field and had everyone go at it.

So, you could say that speedball has been around almost as long as the game itself. However, it would be more accurate to say that speedball came along as a competing format that eventually became dominant. I watched as every field I came across become more and more 'speedball' like. I watched larger playing areas going un-used as the staff pushed more players into smaller playing areas, saving the large fields for really big turnouts. I watched the time limits shrink. I watched the media focus more and more on the speedball and tournament scene. This trajectory was so far along that Specops Paintball was seemingly coming out of left field when they started pitching this idea of 'tactical woodsball' in 2004. So far along that when Tom started pitching ideas of how FS rounds could be used in a more tactically oriented game, folks here couldn't get it.

[BigEvil]

If everyone spent as much time playing paintball as bull****ting about paintball...

[SummaryJudgement]

If everyone spent as much time playing paintball as bull****ting about paintball...

True dat! True dat....