The Offcial BOX Thread

[Creative Mayhem]

Box?

While the box does present the product in a better light, I don't believe that it's the end all be all. I personally don't care if the gun is wrapped only in newspaper and duct tape. If the extreme is going to be the corner stone of the company, not the box. While a good looking box is nice, it will like the others say, end up in the closet collecting dust. I still have my minimag box and it is doing just that, collecting dust. Theres just no "real" reason for the fancy schmancy box.

[Croix71]

I was one of the people that proposed if it's going to take a new box to draw in more people so be it. What I would suggest, as have others, that yes have a new box but how about having it different from the standard white box AGD has being using. What about a different color box (maybe black) with a large fancy eye catching red or green X-Treme logo stamped on it? If it's cheaper how about having a sticker made and putting the sticker on top of the box as it leaves the warehouse.

With something new and eye catching it'll bring forth a new identity to the X-Treme that this isn't ain't the 'Mag your daddy used 15 years ago. Include X-Treme stickers so people can plaster their X-Treme logo on their hoppers, tanks, notebooks. I feel that AGD should still use the classic `Mag in the standard white box but have the X-Treme in a standard black box with a fancy logo. You will have the Hard Core AOer's buy the X-Treme but something different to reel in the many who are uninitiated to AGD.

I agree with what the others have said in regards to advertising. Advertise in the magazines slowly with a black page with the new large fancy eye catching red or green X-Treme logo on it and leave it at that. As the release date for the X-Treme gets closer to tease people by adding snippets of the X-Treme. Increasing the coverage more as time goes on. I think this sounds better then just putting a pic of a prototype X-Treme and putting "Coming Soon."

The most important thing is spend the time on the X-Treme and fine tune the heck out of it. Perhaps send a few out to be reviewed by editors of the paintball magazines and online magazines before it's release. That'd be great coverage if the X-Treme gets in the front page and gets excellent reviews. This would hype it even further.

Just my $0.02

[luke]

(cphilip)

What is this preocupation with the Technology verses Marketing debate? Where does everybody get that? How come everyone seems to think one has to suffer for the other?

It's about where Tom focuses his attention. Like I said I don't know how AGD is structured in terms of departments and who does what, but, it seems to me that Tom takes a large portion of running the company himself. The box issue would probably take time from his other chores.

In my opinion the white box is fine. Why are WE worried about his marketing? What's in it for us? No matter how you look at the "box" it's going to cost him money, which will effect everyone by driving up the cost of his products.

:) luke

[cphilip]

I got two words for that...Del-egate.

Don't try and do everything yourself. Let somebody who is strong in that area take it and run with it.

[cphilip]

Luke we are worried because we care. And he asked. Well I do not even think worried is the right word for it.

An anonamous member tells me this and I tend to agree with it:

The cost to produce the new boxes will be MINIMAL compared to all other things you are being charged for. And when you pay $1400 on a marker, you think even a $10 increase to cover any "costs" for packaging is even an issue?

And Tom could even NOT raise costs and take the bite himself initally, just make less per marker. The increase in sales will MORE than make up for it when he is suddenly considered a "player" again and his products actually MOVE off the shelves. Dealers sell products that MOVE....

See stimulating Volume outside the "AO box" is why we are recommending it. Worried? Naw...not me. Are you worried new folks might actually buy them Luke? That would be a shame.

Just playing with ya Dude! :)

[bofh]

Originally posted by cphilip
An anonamous member tells me this and I tend to agree with it:

[i]The cost to produce the new boxes will be MINIMAL compared to all other things you are being charged for. And when you pay $1400 on a marker, you think even a $10 increase to cover any "costs" for packaging is even an issue?[i]

Anonymous eh?

[luke]

Believe me, I do understand both perspectives, weather it's a business or a consumer view point. The underlying point I was trying to make was that I think it's silly for consumers to be concerned with how a company advertises. Why do they care if he makes more money threw better marketing?

Personally, dare I say, I don't really care how much he charges for anything, because I know what I am getting for my money, quality. I'm a diehard fan like the rest of you, don't get me wrong, I just think this whole thing is silly from a consumer point of view, if I owned stock I wouldn't be writing this.

Just playing with ya Dude!

I know, me too. :)

[cphilip]

Good debate huh?

I do care that AGD stays a major player in the Market place. I want Braggin rights when I whip out my marker. Simple as that. I want them to help me sell others on the Mag. And so I am willing to help them. That's what loyal customers do. I know it's unique for a Company to even ask but what does that have to do with the answer?

[AGD]

This is a good debate and I see a way out of the delema from your feedback. We can go with a sleeve and make it a nice 4 color job with fancy graphics. I feel a contest coming on! Thank you everyone, as usual you come through again!!

All of us at,

AGD

[Load SM5]

Well considering it was our whining that put you in that situation it was the least we could do.

Does this mean when the extream boxes are released I get a free upgrade box? All us SFL owner's won't be happy unless that happens.

Thanks Tom

[Rynoboy06]

So these sleeves would un-delay the extremes? Or mitigate the length of the wait?

[Kaiser Bob]

I was hoping that the C&C would be out come shatnerball, so that we could represent with an army equipped with the best marker out there! But I guess waiting till you get it perfect for selling a ton of them would be a wise decision as well.

[ShooterJM]

I'll assume that the decision has already been made for the sleeve. But there might be another option as well.

Skipping the product vs packaging debate, it's comforting to see a manufacturer that puts as much thought into it's packaging as it's product.

Most paintball guns are sold off a rack not a box. I would suggest having AGD Europe contact some of the well known firearm manufacturers and seeing if you could co-buy gun cases. Most are well constructed and are relatively inexpensive due to the volume that they buy in.

I know many people that have dropped well over $70 on a case for their paintgun. By including this for a few dollars more I don't think it'll matter if the loader comes in a white box or even a bag.

Even if the group buy doesn't work take a look at this

11 x 7 x 3 1/2 molded polyethelyne case for like $22, foam included. I'm assuming there are other wholesale choices cheaper as well as volume discounts. I mean it looks like a briefcase, package your product in one of those with the AGD sticker on it and not only do you have more product differentiation, you have greatly increased your perceived quality (and that, as any marketing guy will tell you, is just as important as achieved quality).

Regardless, good luck!

[Strider]

OEM vs Retail?

Perhaps we should look at the computing industry? They have 2 modes of sale. The OEM, which usually involves the part in bubble wrap, with the bare essentials for documentation. Vs the Retail version, which comes in a box with "dummy" instructions and fluf.

Perhaps an OEM solution? Have the marker with the instructions and video elasticed together, in nothing more than a basic shipping box (Not even as fancy as the current white ones) with packing foam inside...

We can then have the retail version, with the shinny box and foamy inside.

Just a thought...

I'd just like to put my vote in for an all glossy black box with the ADG logo ontop, with the marker name. I believe that marketing, including the box *is* important to attracking a new customer base.

Or maybe velvet... Or Silk? (just kidding!)

[Krazy Ivan]

I've read an easy 3/4 of these posts, and from what I can see the trend is AO doesn't care about the box. While I totally agree, and I don't care what the box looks like, other non-mag owners do.
I have an example: just yesterday I put in an order at my local pro-shop for a Max-Flo system. We began talking about high-end electro's. He suggested the shocker, and I retorted how I hated the Impulse, and that left a sour mark on Smart Parts markers.
He next agreed that the Impulse sucked and we moved on.
I suggested the Angel, because I've always wanted to shoot one, to get the Angel experience. Another guy sitting there listening to our conversation said, and I quote "Well that's all an Angel is. It's an aura of awesomeness. It's not that good of a gun, it's just the aura that is permeates it."

He was right, after all the Modernistic advertising, the pretty marker, and the flashy box. What are you left with? And E-Mag. They are the same beast! Functionally they might be different, however what does the new IR3 have that the E-mag doesn't? The IR3 has an LCD and some features that you will prolly never use.

It has an infrared port, useful for?? upgrading firmware? How many people have ever done this? For you computer even? Have a CD burner? Did you ever upgrade it's firmware? I bet 1 in 10 have actually thought about it.

The only thing that REALLY seperates the Angel from any Mag is the marketing. WDP is a marketing BEAST! TK if you plan on trying to topple or stand next to WDP in marketing prowess this year, I'm sorry but you are sorely mistaken. They have been doing this for years and have perfected an image, they don't need to change their gun at all to get more people to buy it. They have developed the "Aura" and now all they have to do is supply them.

The best move in my mind, would be to meet them with a C&C Extreme, real flashy, with all the level 10 features. Then before it's totally perfected and on the market(But not too far ahead..ahem..), let out teaser ads, not showing the actual gun, stating things like "From the depths of AGD's research and development" or something. You need a new image for mag's. We need a more mainstream, flashy look to draw in the people!

When someone looks on the wall of their local pro-shop what do they see? The Autococker that is all flashy with the flames going down the side(A la KAPP) and the Mini-mag, heavy SS. Now which will the laymen choose, the flashy one of course. It's not my opinion, just mere fact. I have taken countless courses in economics and advertising to realize what sells in this market, and it just isn't quality alone anymore. What people want is to see it flashy and milled out, then after they buy it and shoot it, they want to be able to turn heads and bodies to the dead box.

The box isn't as important as some think, but it still helps sales. The thing AGD really needs is some kind of advertisement that sings like the Angel AIR ads did. They were simple, to the point, but it pulled a lot of people in. For anyone who missed them, they were a black page in a mag, with a date written, then u turn the page and see the AIR logo, turn the page you see the AIR tank, with under it written "Breathe." Now these just used flashy fonts, and contrasting colors, but the simplistic design jumped out at you. A friend of mine looked at it and said, wow that's awesome, if I played paintball I would get one of those first!

Now those are the kind of people we need. The people who are starting out, looking at guns. The high end buyers are mostly well versed in their ways. I know that mostly 7 out of 10 people at my field I go to shoot or have shot Cockers soley for a good length of time. The others shoot electros or starter guns (Spyders, Fishies, Tippman's). The one's shooting Cocker's are generally (Around here) told to go to Angels or Shockers, and Ironically not one store around me(in the framingham/worcestor area of Mass) carry any E-mags. None of them carry Automags, and 2 of 3 I regular carry minimags. They all however agree that mags are on a downhill slide. Nobody who is new to the sport really knows about them. They are looking at the "Aura" of the 'Cockers and Angels.

I know this has been now dragged into a long rant, and I apologize, however to sum it up. AGD needs to get a modernistic, but simple ad campaign for the Xtremes and also make them C&C to start, then add in later the cheaper version, this is to compete more with the Angel in looks, and hopefully steal some of that power away.

I hope this makes as much sense to you as it does me..
Just my 1.50