(Automaggot starts his rant) OMG I HATE OLD WHINEY PAINTBALLERS!

[M-a-s-sDriver]

God help me, I love it so.
How the rants change.
Not long ago the whine was 13 year olds with machine guns.
Now it's 40 somethings with machine guns.
As you gain experience (I have been playing for about 15 years now) you will see the value of certain tactics. Have you ever considered that maybe I am not just trying to hit you with all that firepower, but simply setting you up for the angle-shot on the side of your head that you had no clue was coming, because my insert just moved another notch in the snake while you were wondering why your bunker is getting pounded?
ROF and high capacity are crutches for some teams, and valuable tools for others. Although you have a valid point regarding the unschooled use of those machines, your argument does not hold up when they are properly brought to bear. I am sure your comments where only directed at those teams you managed to beat today, and not generalised to include every player or team using methods you deem innapropriate.As Nitroduck pointed out, paint volume alone does not carry the game, but give it to teamsthat know how to use it, while you are conserving paint, and you will have a rough time winning a tournament.
By the way: I have MORE than earned the right to shoot my Mag. And every RT, Cocker, Angel, and Phantom I have ever owned.
What a stupid thing to say.
Brent Jackson, ACE-PFB.

[spider54]

forgot

the other day at my teams home field there was a group of older guys all cops, and we played a game of 2 on 9 me and another person on my team against all 9 cops. we played and me and my team mate to 2 out off the break and then took 3 more just playin. then my team mate gets out and the other team comes and swarms my bunker took 2 more out at the last second before i got shot. After the game they were complaining saying that were wiping and that we were shooting hot. we both chronoed for them, field limit is 275, i was at 250 and the other guy was 270. They were talkin to another person on the team (who was reffin) and they said that we were thumbing down our velocity. and to make it worse they were cussin at us and what not. to me that is really crappy, i mean for 1 they r cops and for 2 the game was 2 on 9. but whatever they were just angry and i thought that it fit in on this thread

[M-a-s-sDriver]

Hey Spider 54... I believe your sig says it all.
Brent Jackson, ACE-PFB.

[Jack_Dubious]

Originally posted by shartley

Shartley,
You are the main reason I dont post as much as I want.....cause you always say the same things I wanna say!!

Carry on,
JDub

[bornl33t]

Someone with the biggest post here missed the subject by a mile....

It's not about any of THIS whinning... he's frustrated with Others whining. he's not dissin anyone, or trying to make himself look good.... he's stating facts.. to prove his point and for us to visualize WHY he is frustrated....

fact is .. you CAN"T win when you are being refed against..
My advince.. take a pump next time and REALLY give them something to whine about...because then it's there's nothing more they can do but accept the fact that they are too old and big to play on a fast moving speedball court with younger, more experiances, more agile "kids"

[shartley]

[hitech]

Originally posted by AutoMaggot
Its just that we've EARNED the right to shoot Angels and high end markers...

How do you EARN the right to shoot an Angel? What if I thought that until you have competed in a tournament with a pump and shot 1000 rounds with said pump you hadn't earned the right? Whould I be right?

[Mossman]

Originally posted by shartley
I think some people misinterpreted what I wrote.

I was also NOT calling him a punk. Anyone who thinks so, PLEASE go back and read what I wrote again.

Are you insane?!?!?!

Haha, just playin shartley, you should write a damned novel. What you were saying is true, a rant turned into a whine, and after all, paintball is about WINNING and having a GOOD TIME! If you're good enough to win in an amateur circuit all the props in the world to you, enjoy the prize money while its hot. However, if its getting to the point where you're not having fun for this or that reason, this isnt the place to whine about it.

Do pro basketball players complain when they get fouled whenever they touch the ball and shut down? Sometimes, but the fact is, in the NBA you're a professional working for a business, its about money, no one cares if you're having a good time. Its about winning, not enjoying yourself, and when you play a relatively high up tourney circuit you gotta recognize that. Thats what pickup games in basketball are for, and that's what rec paintball is for. No cheating, no ref favoring, just good old playing for the love of the game.

[speedballbanks]

Originally posted by shartley

shartley i am not being sarcastic in this post just posting what i think your saying but not directly posting it. basically what your saying is he is a hypocrite.

[Death Doctor]

old people and young people that play paintball

Something about older people that ive played with that I notice is they arent as offensive. They are more reserved players waiting for the moment rather than trying to create the moment. This is not wrong and it is not right it works in some cases and doesnt in some both old people and young people do it, but from my experience a larger percentage of the older people play in this reserved fashion. In my experience older people do shoot more paint than younger people as a percentage basis. Older people run around less and arent as hop and go and rush up and take the bastards down as younger people are. What you must remember about young and old people is that there are exceptions and some old people do things that is more common in younger people and the other way around. Someone young that I played with a few times had a 6 pod pack. That is rediculous. I have seen old people play with similar amounts of paint. The thing that I notice beyond age is the style of play and the personality of the player.

Like I said the older players that I have played with have been more reserved that the younger players that I have played with. Many young people too adapt this tactic where they stay and unload paint at the opposition and wait hopefully for the opponent to move so they can get a shot at them or simply waiting for the game to progress while still keeping a comfortable distance from the action. Due to their distance they need to shoot more paint. This reserved style of play lacks the skill of an offensive and coordinated team that advances quickly shooting only the paint it needs to be able to move forward again. I am not saying that shooting lots of paint is not effective, but there is a fine line between effectiveness and skill. Millions of balls a second mowing down anything in your path maybe effective but it sure as hell lacks skill. If I am running from a cover to a cover and someone can instantly fill the air with paint then I have almost no chance of making it even if the person shooting is only pointing the gun in my direction and not aiming. Yet if it were slower shooting the person would have to evaluate the speed of the runner, and the speed of a paintball and match up the point where they would meet and fire at the appropriate distance infront of the runner so it would hit him.

Old people take less chances and they use the saying "old age and trechory is no match for youth and skill" and I believe that, that in itself is the difference between older and younger players and that is where the resentment on both sides comes from.

The young know (or think) they have skill and they are eager to show it and defeat the enemy, but the enemy knowing that they do not have youth and the quickness must wait and rely on the opposing force making a mistake rather than the gung ho style of younger players.

Which is right? Whose to say?

Personally I feel that older people simply set up a defensive position with their high end electros and just unload. Lets face it people go and watch those videos of the NPPL the older fat guys are the ones in the back that rarely move from the original bunker they ran to after break out. An opposing force that is coordinated and moves quickly on the enemy with a state of mind of thinking as a group not as an individual, and employs basic tactics like flanking in unison with cover fire and the necessary quick forward movements that will keep the enemy constantly on the deffensive and will force them to eventuall crumble.

Look at it like the Germans. Their best military successes were the lightning fast movements of tanks planes and troops into an area and simply approach so fast that the opposing force simply could not stop it. This is the successful tactic, speed. Dont let your enemy make a defensive plan, defeat him before he has time to.

Now look at D-Day and the atlantic wall. The Germans tried a defense with heavily guarded concrete walls and bunkers and machine guns nests all over the place. The Germans pounded the opposition with thousands of bullets a truly unbelievable amount, but their defenses were fixed. Therefore when the opposition overan a gun emplacement or machine gun nest it was not able to be moved and put in a safer area it was simply captured and out of action therefore creating a hole or a place to flank. Once you put the opposition through those holes the Germans cant defend against all these directions and soon there are so many opponents behind the lines that there is simple no hope of winning.

Old people remind me of the atlantic wall. Young people remind me of the Blitz. The Germans inflicted a much greater number of casualties per man than the allies did to the Germans on D-Day, but they still lost. Does this mean that they are more skilled because they sat back and unloaded on people trying to scramble together an offensive amidst the chaos?

Or was it the gung ho mentality of the young men that went against the wall and against all odds managed to somehow amidst the chaos band together and succeed?

I like the gung ho style of play more It involves much more coordination and teamwork and does involve more skill. But people will always be effective by unloading millions of balls of paint which is not skill as I think anyone who knows about D-Day would tell you.

[Jonno06]

practice doesnt make perfect,it only makes you better.

you will never be prefect.

some pro teams dont cheat.some pro teams do.Another case where the few rotten apples spoil the bunch

[AutoMaggot]

Heat. You hit the nail on the head.

It's the fact of the older people pissing and moaning.

Shartley. It's a free country.

However, if its getting to the point where you're not having fun for this or that reason, this isnt the place to whine about it.

Point taken... I guess this is a different crowd than Pbn.

[Evil Bob]

Your example of D-Day is pretty skewed, you're missing facts and figures on the reason why the allies succeeded. It's not so simplified as "they attacked with lightning speed".

The only reason why the allies over ran the german positions was because of sheer numbers, the allies had three attack waves. The attacking force outnumbered the defending force 20 to 1. The Germans were not prepared for the attacking force that arrived, there were not expecting the attack at that location. If they had been, history would have been written entirely different.

What was the percentage of those on the attacking side that survived? 1 in 10 made it from the landing craft to the beach alive. 1 in 30 made it across the beach. 90% of the troops that landed on that beach died just crossing it. I have been to Normandy and seen the location that my grandfather lost most of his school mates at (they all went in together), I have visited Ohmaha beach, and seen the remains of defense that are still there today. The allies had little to no cover against hardened bunkers and took heavy losses that day.

If the allies didn't have a 20 to 1 numerical advantage, they never would have successfully taken the beach.

-Evil Bob

[boltsmack]

Shartley I think you almost know what your talking about since you were there, actually no you dont. At this MAC series of tournies there are about 3 teams with anyone under 30 years old and under 250 pounds, and that make what seems to me like a $100,000 yearly income because they all pull up in brand new 4 wheel drive trucks. Then most teams do use angels or any other marker over $1000 and I have played quite a few tournies before this one and dont really see these teams there, so I believe that they did exactly what automaggot said asked someone what was the best and went out and bought it.
When playing these teams there style of play is as follows- any bunker past the second row is off limits cause thats too far away, so most of the time there is more than one person in the back bunkers just not really advancing or doing much just shooting paint all over when there is one person left they usually dont think of bunkering even if there whole team is left they just keep dumping and dont realize they could end they game very quickly by eliminating that player.
I think I am sitting the next MAC tourny out because I cant afford it right now along with paintball all together, I along with the rest of Backdraft dont really care to spend that much money and not have as much fun as we usually do.

[shartley]

And I am being kind... let's leave it at that...