You can only hide your lack of skill behind your rate of fire for so long

[Duck Hunt -xi-]

its called surpressing fire....... and keeping one of there top fire powers down is a good move by u man!

next time have a friend move in on him and bunker his arse

[covadsucks]

The pro's do it very effectively. The SC Ironmen have great paint dumpers...they can pin down anyone and let their front men do their jobs much easier. How else you think they can take the 50 on the break?

[mykroft]

It actually takes a modicum of skill to do effectively. If you do it effectively, you keep the right players out of the game until they can be taken out, if done wrong, you wasted lots of paint.

You have to know who to shoot, when to shoot, and when it just ain't going to work.

[~WarpedRT~]

There is a time, and a place for all types of firing. I play front for my teams, I am lucky to go through 1000 rounds in a whole day. Last time I played, I probably put only 600 rounds through my gun. Though, in air ball, I have found that if you unload on a smaller bunker, you can deflate it enought to hit the player behind it on the top of the head or something. Works very good, and they are wondering the whole time "How did he get me?"

For back players, unloading as much as possible off the break is mandatory. My team needs to get to their primary bunkers asap. Other times, mid players should be rainign paint to let the front players move up. the back players should always be firing, even if it is only a ball a second, or they should at least have a bead on some players and be ready to unload.

[paint magnet]

What I'm trying to say is that just shooting with the philosophy that if you shoot enough you will eventually hit them takes no skill. Also, you shouldn't have to rely on your rate of fire to keep you alive, because if you are good enough then thinking and planning your moves and shots will work. Example: Guy with Angel, standing half way up, just raining paint and not making any moves for half the game, and not hitting anybody. Eventually if he keeps shooting, no one will pop up and all he has to do is walk over and bunker the other team. How can you say that takes skill? One guy gets bunkered with no chance and the other one spends a fortune on paint and basically doens't have to do anything to get the elimination, so how is that fun? On the other hand, if no one rains paint without stopping, then both players have to rely on their moves rather than hiding behind a wop, and it results in a much faster paced, more intense, and more fun game that requires you to think. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

[j.t.]

I often get flamed by the pump players just for participating in any form of speedball or just shooting alot playing in the woods. But i dont always believe that just because you are shooting alot of paint that there is no skill used.

A back player who appears to be just dumping paint is actually one of the most important aspects of the team by my opinion. Except that the back players are usually doing alot more than just randomly dumping paint.
They are the ones who really contribute to the team aspect of paintball. They are usually communicating with there mid and front players and puttin the paint down on the other team so that the front players can actually move outside of their bunkers.

Think of what your team would be like without the talented back players. In speedball, you wouldnt be able to move, and you probably would not have any idea where the other team is because there wouldnt be anyone to tell you, or keep the opponents gun's down long enough for you to get a look for yourself.

Sorry for the long post... i was bored

[mykroft]

paint magnet: It does take some skill. I fI just sit there and shoot I do diddly. If I pin you in your bunker and come over and bunker you, I used skill to take you out. Sure it isn't as 'kewl' as sneaking up and backdooring you, but I'm 6'3 260lbs, I'm not going to be able to sneak around on the field, I'm just too darn big. So I use my advantages (Reasonably fast trigger finger, good aim) to make up for my weaknesses (Big target). Now if I just sat in the back and sprayed at anything that moves like a lot of people do, I'd be wasting my money and your time. Instead I use ROF to pin a player in while my front player (or myself) goes up and digs them out, it's skill.

Back players are as essential to the game as mid & front players, we just don't get the respect.

[pumpamatic]

I think it can go both ways. I played in a 3 man novice tournament and saw people who used it well and those who didn't. One game I played a team consisting of a good cocker, excalibur, and another good cocker. They're masses of paint got one of ours off the break, quickly took a back man, and I was left with a 3 on 1 in a mid standup. I think we should have never lost those 2 so quickly had we played better. Anywho, knowing I was going to get pinned down, I made my way across field to a man in the snake and bunkered him. Soon I'm shaking behind the snake as they had both men in mirror back standups against me. I put some on the cocker, then stayed tight and went to the excalibur. He bounced one off my visor and I shot him out. I got tighter and began snapshooting on the cocker, took him out in less than 50 shots. They easily could have had good communication and at least taken a flag pull for 35 points, but instead wanted the elimination for 10 points and just shot like crazy.

Another game was a team who were pretty new, they had an A-5, spyder and something else. I was pinned in most the game because they A-5 thought I was the one to watch for. Well, the all layed paint at me off the break and we ran a guy up the field to the center flag. He got the pull and I could only call things out to my teammate in a mid laydown. He took out 2 in back left and right standups and pinned down the middle standup. I then finally got my chance and moved to a mid laydown, shot a tight angle and took him out. Their storm of paint only required us to use a few different tactics and more patience to win the game.

Not long after we played a team with a back man who rained paint the whole game and his quick little front man got the flag like nothing. They used the tactic well and shut us out. Some teams rained paint on us and don't move, others pinned us in and moved while we couldn't see what was going on.
I think the tactic can go either way, but if you are going to use it you need a front man to move and your shooters need to stop for a second and tell the front men what they see. Use it wisely and it can work for you.

[mykroft]

pumpamatic: That's exactly my point. Laying paint is a skill, like any other, it only matters if used well.

[Creative Mayhem]

I believe in well placed shots, but there are exceptions to that rule. You need suppression fire, therfore you spray and pray. If you hit someone great, if not, you've kept thier head down, usually long enough to move up, or bunker them.

I have problems with spray and pray though, it costs too much especially with an Angel or other electro. Not to mention you loose some of your movement skills when you do nothing but "hide" behind your marker's wall of paint...
I have noticed my movement skills lacking since I got my Angel, so all I can do is go back to the tried and true Minimag. I find this works for me, I can move better in the long run, and it costs significantly less to play with the mag.

For all those who adopt the spray and pray, or limited paint method, do what you want. For me the choice is clear, both methods work extremely well with each other it just takes a little practice to know ehen and where to use each of them.

This works for me, and if you are like me, it will probably work for you. Hope it helps.

[Blade]

i look at it like this, if your playing front and on the break he shoots bout 20 shots, instead of putting up a wall of paint for you to get where you need to be. think about it

[paint magnet]

I don't have anything against speedball. I play speedball, and like it as much if not more than woodsball. And I play with a pump. And no one I play against or know uses a pump. After a while, you'd be surprised how much better it makes you, and then if you switch back to a semi you will be unstoppable. I guess raining paint has it's uses, but it's not my thing. (obviously)

[mykroft]

paint magnet: you've got a point there. I purposely play with my lower-performance markers to improve those skills, or just play hopperball with an Angel.

[rudy]

paintslinging, dumping, if it takes skill then why was thier ever an arguement or thought that it didnt. Most of us here beleive in accuracy by volume. I dont like it but I beleive it. It takes skill and is skilless depending on how you look at it. think about it this way if you went into a 1v1 or 5v5 match and you played a team that was your self think like evil twin or something and you only had 50 balls each and the other team had 1000 balls each over the course of a few games the team with less paint would lose. this is very similar to arguements about camping and spam between clans on the internet. If you go into a clan match you can bet both teams will spam as hard as they can without breaking rules. and 2 players of equal skill the one who spams more is going to win he is turning odds in his favor. so in that light it takes no skill. on the other hand if the players are not equal then yes in fact there is skill behind it. if I can ring of 10 pbs and my oponent can only do 5, and i can hit my target 9 times out of 10 and he can only 1 out of ten then I am going to be more efective which means more skill, when you are trying to decide if what you do takes skill or not look at it this way if the guy you are going after could afford to lay that much paint woudl you still win? The real solution to all arguements is feild design which is an extremely neglected area of paintball. many feilds put exactly zero thought into thier design they either just trow up bunker where ever its easiest or it looks cool or copy something they saw at a tournament. And to be honest Im not to impressed with what I see at tourneys either. I for one think there should be some standardized feilds for some tourny play(not all). At feilds I build I design them to get people close together and give them ways to move and properly designed bunkers so a player can move without needing a player slinging paint. In order to play you dont need a back player but can use one if your tactic employs one. I think tourny paintball has gone to far needing the back players I think some feilds should utilize that style of play but not all.

[cris8762]

my 2 cents:
IMHO paint DUMPING is only essential off the break or if one of your front players is making a important move (bunker, flag pull, etc.) i play novice 3man and as a back player i agree that back players should either be constantly shooting or have a bead on a opposing player

at our last tournament i saw a back player on a am. team burn through 3 pods and a hopper in a little over a minute at 1 PLAYER! this was still in a 3 on 3 situation and he was just trying to get the guy out.....

i agree that it kept the guy IN his bunker well but IMO you dont need to shoot that fast to just eliminate a player....i mean..... if you want to create a stream for the guy to lean out into you should try to time it right, not just completely pound on this guy's bunker so that he never comes out on the side that you have the angle...i dunno...maybe he was trying to get him to lean out the other side so his front guy could get him...but it just seemed wasteful to me..i mean the guy already burned through 1 pod b4 that now he only has 1 left! what would this guy do if 1 or both of his teammates got out?! oh well, i rambled on too long, i was just trying to give an example..... hope i helped..