Level 10 degassing issue?

[cphilip]

Put this in field reports but also want to make sure its seen as I wanted some feedback:

Pressure retention when degassing is much higher. And presents a little bit of a problem. I am seeing like 250 - 300 psi still in the line when the system has degassed to a point that it will not shoot. I totally over looked this during install but it persists and was present then as I think back. I originaly thought it was a sticky Macro fitting but now realize It was under that much pressure. Now this is going to be a problem I think we are going to need to work on. Because in further demo last night I chopped my on off pin removing the valve and shot the on off assembly out. Breaking the on off pin!

We think this retention of gas is a by product of design here and can be a problem and require some sort of device like a slide check in the system to allow total degassing. Remember, I am not talking about that little hiss that you get most times but a big one 300 psi is way too much to start taking things apart. During install I was having to use and small box wrench to bleed the macro out. I had thought that was due to set up errors but it presisted even when the lvl 10 was working properly.

So I think its a part of the trade off here then and would like to know what others are seeing. Screw in tank guys will not see this. Quick connect guys are getting a big hiss I bet. Hard line set up guys with macro or SS line will see this i think.

I need for those of you with closed systems and adjustable tanks that have LP side guages to notice for me what pressures you see when degassed.

[brian terry]

well iv seen no prob with my sfl or my nephews retro mag .we both use 68/45 crossfire tanks.iv got a tourny this weekend so if something bad happons ill post.but iv shot over 3500 kicken paintballs in it with no prob or degasing prob at all.

[cphilip]

OK Brian take a look at that LP sided guage for me and tell me what is says when the marker quits firing.

I just moved the Lvl 10 kit over to the RT pro and got 200 psi left when stopped firing. Twice. A little better but still... Perhaps there is an adjustment to get that down a bit? Tom? anyone?

Reason I moved it over is the emag is dead in the water until I can get a new on off lin in it from my little boo boo last night.

[Moats]

Ive noticed this too. With my flatline i would still have alot of non shootable preasure in the gun. I switched to my dynaflow with on/off bleed valve and that releases all the preasure. I wish i could use my flatline grrrr

[cphilip]

Well not to worry we will figure it out. hey thats what Betta testing is all about!

You are the third of us to report this now since I brought it up.

One theory I am considering is that we may need to go up one carrier size or next losser. When I first set up i had chosen that one but leaked so I went one tighter. Perhaps I gave up on it too early and went tighter and shouldn't have?Perhaps we chose one that while it works it is a bit too tight? Gonna mess with that idea next.I also emailed Jon and the AGD guys on it. Let see what we can find out.

[mxracer33x]

I tried a looser carrier. All I got was a chopped ball. It let the bolt speed up quicker. I had a 1.5 and it worked well, I was actually thinking of a 1 to soften the hit a bit more but it already seemed a bit "sticky" at times. A spring change might be more likely to help in this situation.

[Lone Gunman]

I've had that problem ever since I got my mag. And I don't even have Lvl 10!
I usually get two or three shots after I shut my flatline off and then there is 200-250 psi left in the line. Then I have to whip out the modified washer or wrench.

[rudy]

all guns really need a bleed system, that is one thing I hate about my flatline 4500 is that it has that really nice on off but i cant bleed the gun I would like for the flatline on off to be redesigned at soem point to bleed off as well. I still usually have about 100 psi left on my retro with out lvl 10. and that is still a problem at times. If you hav lvl to and no bleed valve I suggest you put some pressure on the barrel and get it to leak out the bolt or get a bleed valve of some sort. cooper T used to make one that sat in a 1/8 npt port. or you can get an inline one. I have the same problem with the angel too.

[BlackVCG]

It's called a Quick Disconnect people!

Put it at the valve or at the tank. You can use them on all hose types, they aren't expensive and they bleed all the remaining air in the system.

I'll take a picture of it setup on Macroline. It's not that hard but people still need a picture to understand.

[virus]

welp i just checked mine.... sittin on about 350-375psi in the line after shutting off my flatline and firing till i can fire no more.....

but then again i have q/d on mine with some nice stiff teflon orings in them that were a pain to put in but it is worth it now...

on a good note though... my trigger now stayes pushed out like it is ready to fire so now i can sit here and just pull on the trigger to my hearts content w/o wasting any more air...

what i do know is the next couple of times i go out my flatline and warp will be stayin home... gonna take out my micro out so i can win me some money =) and so even after the tape on the paintball holding it 1/2 way into the breech trick... i'm playin with a 9v revy and stick the blimp on the top and fan the trigger at the chrono knowin that it wont chop.... but that will be a story for another day =)

[cphilip]

That may be the only solution Black but many have not needed one before and are not gonna be ready when there kit is there.

And going to not experience these retained pressures until after they first gas up with it. And degassing occurs a lot with lvl 10 set up so they need to know.

In normal cases Macro alone is a good enough quick connect as the retained pressure is low in the 100 or less range. At 200+ psi and even 300 + is not! And that is brand new.

This becomes a safety issue and a break your on off pin issue that needs to be forwarned and looked into. And perhaps a recommendation before trying installing of a slide check is in order. thats what this beta test is all about. Building on knowledge gained.

[nippinout]

Tom! Hold LVL10 production til you read this please

Issues from multiple users during LVL10 testing:

Foamies.

From the testing, some have said that their foamies are coming off. I know my foamie came off when I was dry firing. I found it in my room, where no paint was shot.

Gas retention.

When the gas is shut off, the gun likes to keep some pressure.

There was on instance when I was trying to remove my valve and it would not come off. I was lost as to why, but I removed my intelliframe and rail.

Low and behold, my on/off pin was sticking out of the body. YIKES! I took a pen cap lid and pushed the pin back into place.

After all this, I found a way to relieve this problem.

My set up uses a screw in nitro with uni fill adaptor. I would shut off the fill adapator, and then started to unscrew the tank. When the tank passed the fill adaptor's relief hole, I just pulled the trigger a lot.

Or maybe I'm just crazy.

[cphilip]

these look good for the job I guess (the deggas slide check one) : http://www.skanline.com/productspb/c...ck_Dis_PB.html

[Paintballer86]

Re: Tom! Hold LVL10 production til you read this please

Originally posted by nippinout
Issues from multiple users during LVL10 testing:

Foamies.

From the testing, some have said that their foamies are coming off. I know my foamie came off when I was dry firing. I found it in my room, where no paint was shot.

It will do tha no matter what.... lvl 10 or not. Just super glue the foamie back on... it is supposed to happen...

and regarding the gas issue... that happens on ALL mags...

[cphilip]

gentelmen we already have a couple of threads going on this not going to allow more...merged this one into the main one

And no this is more than the normal mag hiss. We are not that stupid...

Nipping the solution may be as simple and is as adding a slide check but we need to make sure people knwo to do that or they may break something. its possible tom can curb it but not realy a big problem if not. We can just forewarn people to put in a slide check! easy!