interesting topic from war pig

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • HoppysMag
    Hoppy's en Fuego!!!
    • Oct 2001
    • 3494

    #1

    interesting topic from war pig



    Who else thinks that tom should pitch LVL 10 mags as the new special efects delivery tool!


    Smart Parts Goes To Hollywood
    May 2002
    by Dawn Mills - WARPIG.com


    Hollywood's movie and television industry has often used paintball as a vehicle to portray action, adventure and fun, but even though paintball sized shells are often used for special effects, they usually aren't fired out of what we think of as paintguns.

    Paintball guns have been seen as props in such movies as Johnny Pneumonic with F1 Illustrators, Extreme Days with men on skis playing paintball with blow-back semis (never mind their complete disregard for goggles!), Jackie Chan's First Strike with modified Autocockers and the Techwar Science Fiction series also using a modified Autococker design.

    Within the industry of paintball there is a pseudo-secret supplier of special effects shells to Hollywood. They provide the plastic projectile shells used for creating special effects. Like paintballs, the shells are round and 68 caliber, but instead of being made of gelatin, they are made of plastic through a patented injection molding process that makes them shatter on impact. After the pyrotechnicians in Hollywood receive the plastic shell, they fill them with any number of special substances to create the effect that they desire for the production. They use a baby powder type substance to create an illusion of dust or bullet debris, or a 'zirc', which is a zirconium mixture that creates sparks when it's struck against something hard, like a ricochet of a bullet on pavement or on a vehicle. According to Tom Kaye, President of Technicor, makers of the Perfect Circle plastic shells, they are the leading supplier for special effects delivery in Hollywood.

    In the past, Hollywood has shied away from using paintball guns as a delivery method for these plastic shelled balls since the pyrotechnics inside are shock sensitive. They have instead made their own single shot breech or muzzle loaded guns - basically a barrel and a valve - for delivery. These custom built effects guns typically consist of a number of barrels mounted on a framework, aimed at their targets. Low pressure compressed air is delivered through high flow solenoid valves. The advantages of this set up for the effects crew are several. First there is the shock issue, with no bolt or loading action the zircs won't get set off inside the effect gun. The effect guns, being pre-aimed and mounted will hit what they are meant to hit, and since the whole rig takes a while to set up, the effects crew makes more money.

    Smart Parts has been a leader in the changes that have marched across the paintball industry, rallying for a delivery of a low pressure blast of gas and a gentle bolt strike on the ball for use on fragile shelled paint, claiming that this leads to less welting of players, and better marking with fewer bounces in tournaments. The low exhaust pressure, and light bolt pressure of the Shocker and Impulse paintguns have caught the interest of special effects production company in Hollywood. According to Smart Parts' President Billy Gardner, Smart Parts is being considered for the use of their low pressure guns as the delivery method for effects balls in the upcoming production of Terminator III. The movie's special effects will be handled by Special Effects Unlimited who have worked on big name, high caliber films like Harry Potter, Pearl Harbor, Sixth Sense, Deep Blue Sea, Contact, and Black Hawk Down.
    "You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." -John Morley
  • 314159
    Registered User
    • Nov 2001
    • 555

    #2
    Re: interesting topic from war pig

    Originally posted by HoppysMag
    http://www.warpig.com/paintball/arti...052402sp.shtml

    Techwar Science Fiction series also using a modified Autococker design.
    that was a pgp based gun, hehehe
    As society and the problems that face it become more and more complex and machines become more and more intelligent, people will let machines make more of their decisions for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better results than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the machines will be in effective control. People won't be able to just turn the machines off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off would amount to suicide

    sometimes I just freaking hate people. which means the next day I will love them for the sake of balance, but right now I will just concentrate on the hating. Hate hate hate. Blaaaarg! ;)

    turborev - with ai like this, if it controlled any more than a paddle, it would kill you and everyone you care about. ;)

    Comment

    • 314159
      Registered User
      • Nov 2001
      • 555

      #3
      The Worlds Largest Selection of Pyrotechnic & Special Effects Supplies Under One Roof


      lotsa special effects goodies, don't blow yourself up kiddies
      As society and the problems that face it become more and more complex and machines become more and more intelligent, people will let machines make more of their decisions for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better results than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the machines will be in effective control. People won't be able to just turn the machines off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off would amount to suicide

      sometimes I just freaking hate people. which means the next day I will love them for the sake of balance, but right now I will just concentrate on the hating. Hate hate hate. Blaaaarg! ;)

      turborev - with ai like this, if it controlled any more than a paddle, it would kill you and everyone you care about. ;)

      Comment

      • virus
        AO's dirty little secret
        • Oct 2000
        • 1524

        #4
        Re: interesting topic from war pig

        Originally posted by HoppysMag

        Smart Parts has been a leader in the changes that have marched across the paintball industry, rallying for a delivery of a low pressure blast of gas and a gentle bolt strike on the ball for use on fragile shelled paint, claiming that this leads to less welting of players, and better marking with fewer bounces in tournaments.
        WOW what a CROCK..........

        hmm my ball leaving my mag at 300fps is going to leave a bigger welt, bounce and if it does break it wont mark as well then if it were done with a smartparts gun instead.....

        hey anyone see my hip-waders... its gettin pretty deep in here =)
        Virus, King of the Basement Trollz has spoken

        Comment

        • Jonno06
          AKA Jon-no wang
          • Jan 2002
          • 4392

          #5
          do you mean high-waters?

          lol...yea...Smart parts obviously had to do with the writing of that article....(i use article loosely)

          Comment

          • billmi
            Tech Editor - WARPIG.com
            • May 2001
            • 810

            #6
            Re: Re: interesting topic from war pig

            Originally posted by virus


            WOW what a CROCK..........

            hmm my ball leaving my mag at 300fps is going to leave a bigger welt, bounce and if it does break it wont mark as well then if it were done with a smartparts gun instead.....

            hey anyone see my hip-waders... its gettin pretty deep in here =)
            To clarify their claim...

            They aren't saying the same ball at the same velocity, fired with lower pressure gas will make a smaller welt.

            That they have said is that by using lower pressure gas they are handling the ball more gently, and thus are able to use more fragile paint. They claim that more fragile paint is more likely to break on target, and that breaking the shell absorbs part of the impact energy, decreasing the impact on the skin, and thus leaving less of a welt than a thick shelled ball that bounces.

            These claims were made at an industry conference by Billy Gardner in 1999.

            See you on the field,
            -Bill Mills

            Computer / Paintball geek
            Technical Editor, World And Regional Paintball Information Guide - http://www.WARPIG.com
            Producer, Paintball Television - http://www.PigTV.net
            Paintball, Motocross trail riding, SCUBA, climbing, surfing, R/C aircraft, fun stuff...

            Comment

            • Butterfingers
              PhD in Automagology
              • Jan 2001
              • 2263

              #7
              Yeah Smart Parts Likes being delibrately deceptive.
              Did you hear about the new european weapons contracts? France is going to make the wooden sticks Spain making the little white flags

              Comment

              • Butterfingers
                PhD in Automagology
                • Jan 2001
                • 2263

                #8
                AGD should up the ante with the automag.

                A gun that is more reliable, faster and now gentler on paint.

                AGD could really play off its military and LE experience.

                I bet if they knew about it they would clearly see which company has more technology and experience. Ahh the joys of marketing...
                Did you hear about the new european weapons contracts? France is going to make the wooden sticks Spain making the little white flags

                Comment

                • Toxic Dave
                  Registered User
                  • Sep 2001
                  • 195

                  #9
                  Butter!!

                  It's just basic physics! If you hit a ball with a burst of air or a bolt for that matter with less pressure you are less apt to break the ball. Why is that hard to understand?? My mag breaks more paint in one day of use than my Impulse does over the course of a season. Whatever, you go on beliving what you want, i'll go on beliveing what I experience.

                  Dave/GZS
                  Toxic Performance..Making the world a better place one product at a time.

                  Comment

                  • mykroft
                    Registered User
                    • Jan 2001
                    • 2010

                    #10
                    Toxic Dave:

                    Get a Gun dyno set up to measure the pressure that ACTUALLY hits the ball. It'll be around 90psi for any gun. The only thing that you can change is how fast it hits 90psi. The longer the accelleration, the easier it would be on those pyrotechnic balls. A Shocker with a high dwell, and lower than normal pressure would accellerate the ball slower, hence being easier on it. Paintballs aren't fragile enough for this to matter, but apparently the fills in these effects balls are.
                    2k2 VF Cocker, STO/Eclipse Blade, Old-Style 14" Boomstick,
                    68AutoMag Classic Feed CF11023, Ring trigger.

                    Comment

                    • athomas
                      Of course it works-its AGD
                      • Jan 2002
                      • 8039

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Toxic Dave
                      Butter!!

                      My mag breaks more paint in one day of use than my Impulse does over the course of a season. Whatever, you go on beliving what you want, i'll go on beliveing what I experience.

                      Dave/GZS
                      Butterfingers is referring to the level 10 mag. Even the impulse running low pressure breaks more balls than the level 10 mag.
                      Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

                      Comment

                      • paintballisking
                        Registered User
                        • Jul 2001
                        • 61

                        #12
                        i have the level 10 and a impulse me and my brother are playing tonight. he never plays so that will be the test if the level 10 can handel a newbie i will be the number one spokes person for the level 10
                        tom you won't have to worry my salery because i'm not as hot as your number 2 spokes person. whats her name

                        we will be shooting the same paint with nitro so it will be the same for both

                        we will see who chops first

                        Comment

                        • Butterfingers
                          PhD in Automagology
                          • Jan 2001
                          • 2263

                          #13
                          Dave,

                          Where is your physics? Please don't quote physics when you dont know how to properly apply it nor have any experimental data to prove it.

                          I guess that means "Its simple physics you can see that the sun revolves around the earth"

                          AGD has spent countless man hours researching ball breakage and has determined that the pressure that "hits" the ball is irrelevant. Thus the development of level 10. Which actually "hits" the ball with slightly more pressure than the original automags but has drasticly slower bolt speeds than the original.

                          Original automags actually "hit the ball" with less peak barrel pressure than impulses" 60 psi measured behind the ball aft the dump chamber.

                          Sorry your theory is inconsistent with experimental results.

                          As I have said and now has been verified. Ball breakage has to do with bolt speeds.

                          Dave can I see your research on this topic?

                          Before you go ahead and suggest that I am ignorant and that I "dont understand"... What is your actual degree of understanding on the issue of ball breakage, besides speculation... Or the fact that the person at cousins told you that air that hits the ball is responsible for breakage. Let me ask you what is his degree of understanding. From what I have seen all thier "information" comes from a smart parts catalouge.

                          Originally posted by Toxic Dave
                          Butter!!

                          It's just basic physics! If you hit a ball with a burst of air or a bolt for that matter with less pressure you are less apt to break the ball. Why is that hard to understand?? My mag breaks more paint in one day of use than my Impulse does over the course of a season. Whatever, you go on beliving what you want, i'll go on beliveing what I experience.

                          Dave/GZS
                          Last edited by Butterfingers; 07-12-2002, 11:53 AM.
                          Did you hear about the new european weapons contracts? France is going to make the wooden sticks Spain making the little white flags

                          Comment

                          • Toxic Dave
                            Registered User
                            • Sep 2001
                            • 195

                            #14
                            Butter,

                            I'll admit my ignorance in the field of physics, but I do know quite a bit about paintball. You can write it all down, draw me a picture, whatever you want to do to explain it all to me, but the fact that when I pick up my micromag, load some normal paint into it and then proceed to break 5 balls out of 1000 as opposed to using my impulse and breaking 5 balls out of 50,000 shots of brittle hellfire says enough for me to belive what I see, not what the math shows.

                            All the phsysics equations aren't going to make me change my mind. I'm impressed with AGD design in general and I'm the biggest supporter of simplicity in the world of design, but when I'm playing in a serious manner, my Mag doesn't even come to the field with me.

                            Dave
                            Toxic Performance..Making the world a better place one product at a time.

                            Comment

                            • Butterfingers
                              PhD in Automagology
                              • Jan 2001
                              • 2263

                              #15
                              Dave I came off sounding a bit harsh. Of course you did dismiss an idea as false given no definitive proof.

                              Ok, your mag breaks paint. But is if for the reason you think it is. No. It is an incorrect assumption.

                              It was once thought that bleeding people using leeches or cutting a vein to treat a disease would cure a person. It was assumed that "bad blood" was the cause of illness.

                              Modern medicine has proven otherwise.

                              If we all went on heresay and information that we "thought" was true becuse we assumed it to be true society would never advance.

                              Proper research and experiemtnation has proven that the reason why people get sick is not because of "bad blood" but because of pathogens that infect us.

                              Over the years scientists have come up with antibiotics to treat these diseases because they now know the real reason behind illness.

                              It has been proven difinitively that op pressure has absolutely nothing to do with ball breakage. But in fact bolt speed does. It just happens that automags boast the fastest forward bolt speed of any gun.

                              AGD has researched and fixed this problem and has come out with level 10 because they now know the real reason behind ball breakage.

                              Are you going to be at high velocity or any of the LI fields anytime next week Ill give the marker a looksee.

                              Just because you have problems does not mean it can't be fixed and it does not mean that all automags can be attributed to your problem. What you see does not necesarily mean what everybody else sees.

                              I have put 3 cases of hellfire through my my non-level 10 retro-mag with zero breaks and about 5 or 6 through my e-magnum at 20 bps full auto with 4 chops no barrel breaks. Admittedly they were either warp fed or haloed.

                              I am confident I can make your mag do the same. No barrel breaks given the correct bore match. Admittedly I can't fix chops only level 10 or a speedier hopper can do that

                              Have you seen level 10?
                              Last edited by Butterfingers; 07-12-2002, 05:37 PM.
                              Did you hear about the new european weapons contracts? France is going to make the wooden sticks Spain making the little white flags

                              Comment

                              Working...