Level 10 question/suggestion/wishlist **A little long**

[Cypres0099]

Setup

First, I will describe my setup. I have an emag with warp and level 10. I am using the 0 carrier, 4 shims, (one of them bent so I might get rid of it) and the long spring.

The way I have it setup now, it is almost ridiculously soft. It sometimes has trouble pushing the paint past the detent if the velocity is too low. I am using exremely brittle unconsistant Brass Eagle. (it's the only brittle stuff I could get my hands on at this time)

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Here are some things I noticed.

1. At this setting, if I let it sit for a couple minutes, the first shot will just click sort of like when you have the saftey on and shoot.

2. In rapid fire It will sometime double feed because at this light of cycle it sometimes only pushes the ball forward a bit.

3. If it is not heavily oiled, it will stick some of the time.

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Now here is my question/suggestion would a longer spring with more tension in my case be benificial.

With a tighter spring, you could make the o-ring carrier size larger reducing your need for the heavy frequent oiling. It might also reduce o-ring wear. At this time with the long spring and while shooting a bit hot, I have not had any problem with the regulator leaking out the back so it would be possible for me to use a tighter spring.

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My other suggestion is about the foamies. At this setting, level 10 will sometimes mistake the pressure of the ball being pushed past the nubbin as a potential chop so it won't shoot the ball. If the foamies were a little softer (they were a little bit harder than I had thought before) it would compress the foamy a little bit more allowing the bolt to get further into it's cycle so it won't mistake the pressure of the nubbin for a pinch.

These foamies with the right combination of shims might eliminate the level 10 nubbin/detent mistake. This might even make it possible to do the dollar bill trick at a useable setting......?

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Wish list

1. A longer/tighter spring if my suggestion is possible.

2. Lighter foamies if my idea would work.

3. I would like to know what the shims actually do to the way the bolt travels when it pinches.

4. A level 10 carrier. Sort of like a plastic socket carrier.

5. I would like to soon be able to buy more shims in the store so I can expiriment and because I bent one.

[Army]

The shims take the place of the PT spacers by setting the distance the bolt stem extends into the PT. They time when the bolt vents. More shims, early venting (light hit on the ball). Less shims, later venting (bolt starts to get a little more speed, hits ball with a little more force).

I would bet that if you take one of your shims out, it will push the ball softly past the nubbins, yet fire reliably.

[Cypres0099]

I'll try removing one or two shims, I was thinking that the slightly bent shim might mess with it a bit also.

[AGD]

Shims will not affect ball impact. You either need to switch to a bigger carrier or go to the middle spring.

AGD

[Cypres0099]

I know you tend not to post twice Tom but what about the longer spring to reduce bolt speed without having to go to a smaller carrier which would reduce the need for heavy oiling.

As I said before I have no problem with the reg venting so would it be possible to put in a tighter spring?

Also, I know the foamy idea is a little far fetched but I thought it might work.

[Evil Bob]

The larger springs pretty much require the smaller carriers, they're mutually exclusive.

The larger springs generate more starting resistance against the bolt. To counter this you have two options: 1) Increase the air presure fed to the bolt (crank up the velocity) and 2) make a tighter seal (smaller carrier) around the bolt stem (which also increases the pressure behind the bolt). Lighter spring = less starting resistance = bigger carrier = less bolt stick potential. This is why Tom's instructions have you test the carrier with your default spring before moving on to different springs so you get the correct carrier size to start with. You said you're shooting hot, moving to the middle spring and a larger carrier will allow you to lower your velocity.

When the bolt pinches a ball, its not the foamie that is making contact, its the bolt lip, this is due to the spherical shape of the ball, its curved surface will contact the bolt lip before it touches the foamie. Looking at the animations in the LVL 10 Info thread you can see how this happens. Softer foamies only come into play when the ball is properly seated in the chamber and the bolt is moving forward. One concern of using a softer foamie is that it will not wear as well as the current foamie. Tom went through that all 10 years ago when he was looking for the perfect foamie, one soft enough to lessen the bolt impact on the paintball but durable enough to survive the chamber pressure and high speed movement without coming apart. How many of us remember the original foamies? Super Glue and a small baggie of replacement foamies was a must have in your tool kit.

-Evil Bob

[Cypres0099]

Here's my postion,

I started with the 1.5 carrier and large spring. The velocity was fine I could even move it up and down with quite a bit of leeway (sp?) but it still wasn't as soft as I wanted it.

So I moved down to the 1 carrier still pretty much the same abality to adjust the velocity and no problems but my friend was saying that his shocker was still softer so I kept going.

I went down to the .5 carrier where at first I was shooting hot (quite a bit) then I brought it down and I was shooting a bit slow. So as you can see, it still had it's range of velocity. At this point, I hadn't noticed any problems with bolt stick or the like. But, it would still sometimes chop the very brittle brass eagle paint that I was using for testing if pinched on the seem. At this point it had just about the force of my friends shocker.

Then I was like why not. So I went down to the 0 carrier. Still it had a decent range of velocity except when the velocity was down a little low it would sometimes stick (when it was not well oiled) It would also click on the first shot after letting it sit for a few minutes. At this point, I have had no problems with the reg venting out the back even at higher than normal velocities.

So what I'm asking and what you may have already answered but I didn't quite grasp your explanation is....

If I had a heavier spring, and moved back to the .5 carrier they would cancel each other out in terms of bolt speed and be like the setup I have now but without the bolt sticking. I could choose choice number 1 (crank up the velocity rather than nubmer 2 (smaller carrier) It might also reduce the need for heavy oiling because I have moved to a larger carrier.

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I see what you mean about the edge of the durabilty of the foamy. However, I was not actually talking about when it pinches a ball. I am talking about when the ball is properly seated in the breach and the bolt mistakes the pressure of the nubbin, as it pushes the ball into the barrel, as a pinch. Sort of like the setting used for the dollar bill, Tom said it wouldn't push a ball past the nubbin.

What I was saying is that if the foamy was soft enough it would cushion the ball enough (like in the Matrix when Neo hits the pavement when he tries jumping) at the begining to get the bolt far enough into the barrel so full speed will kick in and it will not mistake the detent pressure for a pinch.

Maybe a foamy with a soft center but a harder plastic like shell.


It would just be great if I could get my hands on a tighter spring just to try it out and maybe I'll modify my foamy....hmmmm :)

[Cypres0099]

What I would like to know is if the fine people at AGD have done any testing with a larger/tighter spring.

Evil Bob - I just got your explaination about the spring and carriers. I have ranged from the 1.5 carrier to the 0 so it doesn't seem to be that important.

Tom - You must have something laying around that I could buy off you....