The truth is out there - and we're showing the light...

[cledford]

Here is a quote from a post over at PB Nation:

"I think the AOG guys are just ensuring truth in advertising, which up to this point no one has attempted. I think its great, Im glad people with the tools and engineering backgrounds have the gumption to force this stuff to the surface. Hell, I hope the AOG becomes the paintball consumer reports, we sure could use it."

Myself, Manike, Butterfingers, Jack-n-Coke, and a few others are involved on in a performance related debate over there. I was stoked when I saw the above quote posted by a non-AOer.

Questioning claims is not about attacking people, it's about insuring that the sickening hype associated with paintball is finally dispelled in favor of fact. I was in a shop today having my nitro bottle refilled and again heard the "closed bolt shoots further" story again. The kid put down the Angel he was looking at for a the cocker.

Anyhow, I seem to recall that one of Tom's goals in hosting this site was to educate that masses through a grass-roots campain - maybe it's starting to work.

-Calvin

[a_malfunction]

maybe it's starting to work.

I sure hope so!

[joeyjoe367]

Yeah, I'm getting sick of the whole "This product is better, but I won't tell you why/how"

...pretty much why I hang out on these forums, and not any others.

[cledford]

Add Miscue to the list...

My God! I couldn't believe how he busted out the microelectronics knowlege to WHOOP down some bogus AI claims...

Awesome work dude!

-Calvin

[Vegeta]

Yes I was also very impressed at Miscue's explanation. I knew he was a programmer but i had no idea he dealt with IC's.

[manike]

Re: The truth is out there - and we're showing the light...

Well posted Calvin. I think you make an excellent point that all AO'ers should take head of...

Originally posted by cledford
Questioning claims is not about attacking people, it's about insuring that the sickening hype associated with paintball is finally dispelled in favor of fact.

'bout time we saw that in someone's sig

I missed out on Miscue's post... someone has to have a copy for me

It never ceases to amaze me how many talented people I meet on the net. The more I do, the more I am in awe, and the less I realise I know.

manike

[hitech]

Re: Add Miscue to the list...

Originally posted by cledford
My God! I couldn't believe how he busted out the microelectronics knowlege to WHOOP down some bogus AI claims...

I was very impressed also. Apparently he is a programmer (so am I), but he also knows something about statistics. Great job.

[Dragoon]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117346&perpage=21&pagenumber=1

I beleive that's the link to the Miscue post.

Douglas

[cledford]

Deleted ;/

The entire thread was deleted by mods over at PB Nation. I have posted an open request to know why, and what should have not occurred to have earned such action. I have not gotten any type of reply yet.

Even if there was flaming that the mods had issue with, the thread could have been locked, but left to preserve the really good technical content.

The deletion smacks of censure, cover-up, and obvious favoritism to a frequent poster over there. Their credibility is bankrupt in my book.

Jim Drew has been making outrageous claims there for quite some time regarding among other thing the following:

Applying the HES to paintball in a Timmy trigger that has yet to surface. When questioned about not giving "inspirational" due to the Emag, he then claimed that (even as the self proclaimed "Rocket Scientist" of paintball) he did not even have any idea of the Emags trigger system and that his idea was totally spontaneous. Never mind that the Emag had been out for over a year at the time...

A loader board that had "advanced AI" built into it. Miscue crushed this claim thoroughly - when he identified that the components used in the board (from a picture taken from the WAS website) we INCAPABLE of such claims. This happened to be the root of the thread deleted.

A new board for the Timmy that solves severe shootdown found in the stock version -related to electrical components used in the first board. Some testing I had done a few months back (to see how consistent my Palmer reg was) showed me that his claims that the severe shootdown were bogus - he has done everything to avoid the simple request for proof otherwise.

The "invention" of a "cork-screw" loader that can be mounted side-saddle like the warp - which no one to date has seen. The loader is claimed to feed at 35BPS.

The guy makes tons of claims - none that to date has stood up to simple challenges and requests for proof. Don't get me wrong, many of the features he builds into his products seem to work well, but his hype cannot be substantiated. It is sad that it seem most people in paintball would rather pay more for hype, then less for something that works. I feel the frustration now that AGD must feel. How do you convince people to give up elaborate untruths that make them feel good, for real truths in which they'd be better of if they accepted but won't?

-Calvin

[Patron God of Pirates]

"And the lie which is the truth will hurt more than the truth which is a lie" -Elf Quest

Sorry, your statement reminded me of that and I felt like posting it.

[cledford]

I was wrong...

In my previous post here I made several very bad statements about the Mods over at the PB Nation loader forum - assuming that they had deleted the post in which Miscue had challenged WAS regarding their load claims.

I, wrongly, assumed that only mods over there could delete posts, and pointed a finger of cover up in their direction.

In fact, the original poster of the thread was able to delete it himself.

My apology to the loader forum mods at PB Nation for wrongfully accusing them.

The thread can be found at http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...182#post914182

-Calvin

[gatorchris]

I am the culprit behind the quote in Calvin's thread starter. I have to say at this point Im thoroughly disgruntled with WAS, and a small contingent in the timmy board at PBN. It seems some people are content to go through life with the blinders on. As stated in that thread, I dont know for certain that Calvin or WAS is correct in their work, but with the tap dancing Ive seen from Jim its hard to believe his side of the story. In the end his product is going to be bought, even by me because of the other proven benefits but its nice to see people with principles sticking to their guns regardless.

Keep up the good work, Ill start checking in here but you've got way too much mag love for it to be a regular haunt It would be nice if you dedicated a forum strictly to hype sniffing (call it consumer reports maybe?) or something, that way I wouldnt have to sift through all the LX posts to find one that interests me, a non-mag owner. Pretty tall request since this is a mag board, I understand, just thought since you are becoming the consumer reports of pball, might as well own up to it and go all the way!

[shartley]

Thank you for clearing that up.

[Kaiser Bob]

The Hype Detectives! That would be a cool new section to AO.

[FrAuStY]

Originally posted by Kaiser Bob
The Hype Detectives! That would be a cool new section to AO.

I second that...it could be "Hype Sniffers" but that sounds too much like a druggie forum..