Guns and Ammo Magazine...and me (long, but eye opening))

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  • Army
    Moderator of DOOOOOOOOMMM!

    • Oct 2000
    • 5785

    #1

    Guns and Ammo Magazine...and me (long, but eye opening))

    I'm a regular at G&A's website. As most of you know, I am an avid shooter and varmint hunter. When the Administrator of the site (he's also an editor on the magazine), asked the members if an article on paintball would be OK in the Mag.

    This is where it gets funny..odd..weird..peculiar......and aggravating! Most of the responders are easily seen to be dyed-in-the-wool shooters and hunters, and only know enough about paintball to say the usual "militia training" comments we've all come to endure. A total of 3 of 40+ responses were positive, the rest were adamentely against the notion of a GUN magazine having PAINTBALL in it: (actual response)"It's GUNS and Ammo, not guns and paintball and ammo. If G&A publishes an article like that, I'm cancelling my subscription!"

    Of course, this was a challenge I had to accept. I tried to tell our side of the facts, and I thought I did a good job of it too, only to be shot down right away! I did manage to change one mind (1 of 3), who stated that he wouldn't mind seeing a technical article. But alas, it was all for naught. The website posted a poll asking the same question; it's running 85-10 against it. It was running 85-9 until a little while ago Anyway, here are the posts I put up, with edits of the responses for brevity:

    The original post from the editor:The folks at G&A have been considering publishing an article or two on paintballing. Not a lot as I understand it, maybe just something in the buyer's guide. They are paintball "guns" after all. Anyway, your opinions are solicited. Good idea? Bad idea? Let us know.
    Dan Johnson
    If you put a paintball article in G&A, then I'd have to cancel my subscription.
    Dan, I personally don't like paint balling...kinda like violence on TV without the real thing. Last winter there were 4 teenagers charged with felony assault after a rampage in downtown Anchorage shooting frozen paintballs at people, mostly natives....bad bad deal, some were injured. I just don't think it's a wholesome hobby. I say take someone to the range and let him/her shoot the real thing and encourage and teach them safe weapons handling and responsibility. Just my .02 cents worth.
    Mark


    ...and my first letter

    Ouch. That's hypocritically scathing, blaming Paintball for the crime. Isn't that the same thing Sarah Brady says about YOUR guns? Shame on you for the comparison.

    As a Moderator of the WWW's largest single issue paintball site ( www.automags.org ), and a hard-core player, I am fully qualified to report that Paintball does NOT promote violence, criminal activity, indigestion, speeding, bad taste in clothes, or teen pregnancy.

    It does, however, promote teamwork, safe play, comaraderie, family fun, and safe handling of weapons. "How safe can it be? you shoot each other!" See, I knew you were going to say that! Paintball, despite being the #4 Extreme sport in the world, played by more that 7,000,000 people last year in the USA alone (according to people who make those lists), it is safer and less injurious to play than golf, tennis, badminton, and even bowling.

    Go ahead and ask why..."Why?"..Glad you asked! Paintball can be played any number of ways. The original, 1981, concept was to stalk and eliminate your opponants and "capture the flag" in a wooded environment. This slowly evolved into massive games called scenarios, in which hundreds and even thousands of players act out a scripted story. The game can be of a fantasy nature, to sci-fi, to re-enactments of historical battles, D-Day being the most popular. Points are scored by finding or capturing objects or finding items needed to complete your teams part of the script. The whole time is also spent trying to eliminate from the game, as many of the other team as possible. These big games are usually 24-48 hours long, and have been sponsored by military posts (Ft. Campbell, Ft. Hood and others) including West Point (who, incidently, has their own tournament Paintball team, the Black Nights).

    The other game normally played, especially at Novice, Amateur, and Professional levels, is called Speedball. This is a roughly 1/2 acre "court", that is set up with barriers, called bunkers, that are arranged to be a mirror image of either side. Bunkers can be giant corrugated plastic pipe, plywood, concrete, or inflateable geometric shapes. A time limit is placed on the game, usually 5-10 minutes, to force the teams to play fast and hard to "out" the other team, grab the flag in the middle, and take it to the opponants starting point. Honesty and fair play is tantamount in this game, as the referees may not always see a paint splatter on a player.

    "So answer the safety question already, Dave!" At no time, ever, for any reason, during a regulated game, are you allowed to remove your face-mask. 99.9% of all commercial fields will ask you to leave the property if you do. The rest will escort you quickly, and covered, to the safe/ready area, where you will be scolded for doing so. In the last 10 years, there have been less than 50 reported occular injuries on commercial fields in the USA. In this day of instant lawsuits, that's pretty damn impressive! Of course, no-one and nothing but proper parental upbringing can regulate what you do with your friends in the backyard or private field. We call that "outlaw play", even though there is nothing illegal about it!

    Yes, I know the NRA does not endorse paintball, I think, that's because they already have their hands full enough. But do not ignorantly spew that paintball promotes violence or criminal activity, lest we all admit that firearms are the root of crime too.

    As for G&A publishing an article on paintball...wellllll...maybe just one on how the technology has advanced from the first US Forest Service single shot, underpowered, innacurate markers, to todays processor controlled, high rate, precision paint flingers. Otherwise, let's leave the real gun magazines to the real guns.


    As you can see, I ageed that G&A is for firearms, not paintballing. Next, I tried to show how much the guns have changed

    To add to my opinion: An article about paintball would not be very welcome in a firearms periodical. However, the technology of the markers has surpassed that of firearms by leaps and bounds!

    This is the first commercially successful paint ball gun, the Splatmaster. It used 12gram Co2 powerlets and held but 10 shots in the top tube magazine. You had to cock it for every shot by pulling back on the rear knob.[Followed by a picture of a Splatmaster]


    Now, here is one of my Paintball guns, the Airgun Designs E-mag ("E" for electronic, mag is short for Automag). Processor controlled, up to 20 shots per second, 200 balls in the hopper, force-fed into the breech, running on 3000psi of nitrogen.[Followed by a fine picture of the Red Baron]


    As you can see, it's a whole new ball game!



    I can't say I have a major problem with paintballing but I do think there is better material to fill space with.
    More on reloading/hunting or gun reviews on guns under $800. More info on different calibers would be great to.


    My final response...

    Hmmm...Peterson Publishing owns many of the great automotive magazines, yet G&A has truck articles. We all get the Cabelas catalog (don't we?), yet G&A runs articles on the latest gear for the outdoors. Doesn't Petersons publish an outdoor magazine too...?
    I'll betcha that if Petersons had a personal opinion magazine, G&A would still have the good Colonel on the back page!

    I see a lot of "paintball doesn't belong in a GUN magazine", I also see a wee bit of hypocrisy


    The last few letters simply agreed with the others, that such an article still didn't belong in a GUN magazine, so I gave up trying to push that rope up the hill. It wasn't all for naught though, as the poll came out over a week later. I think they are still trying to gauge reaction to an article on Paintball. I am going to solicit the Webmaster/editor for exactly what he wants in such a story. Keep your fingers crossed! Army
    Last edited by Army; 08-05-2002, 09:18 PM.
  • rx2
    DBAF
    • Mar 2002
    • 496

    #2
    I personally would rather things be kept seperate (although G&A does have some odd articles), but I am sure that all can appreciate your defence of the sport.
    I still am amazed at how negatively people react to the sport, though. Furthermore, I am somewhat amused, and somewhat dismayed by the whole ameture psychological-analysis. Of course, I have been shooting since I was four, and playing paintball since I was tweleve, so I have a different outlook on things, but some people are out on a limb, it seems.
    Actually, I know several people who have been directly affected by gun violence, all three resulting in a death. These involved people who were brought up with guns, and taught proper safety. No one I play paintball with has even been injured by paint. To say paintball is unsafe and unhealthy is a tragic misrepresentation.
    "My Jell-O is dying in the audience..."
    Merrill Howard Kalin

    Comment

    • BTAutoMag
      AO's Problem Child
      • Oct 2001
      • 7199

      #3
      wow that is a long... wow

      i agree
      paintball should not be in any G&A magazine just as well as guns should not be in paintball magazines.
      sigpic

      Comment

      • Arturus
        Registered User
        • Jun 2001
        • 493

        #4
        By far one of the more interesting posts I've read on AO.

        Especially liked this one -

        "Ouch. That's hypocritically scathing, blaming Paintball for the crime. Isn't that the same thing Sarah Brady says about YOUR guns? Shame on you for the comparison."

        Keep us updated.

        Comment

        • FaSSt
          Registered User
          • Feb 2001
          • 658

          #5
          Army,

          Good letter, and an excellent point on the hypocrisy issue. I'm sure you know that there are some people in the gun world who don't like this or that - gun owners are not an entirely homogenous block. I once got a fairly curt "We don't have have THOSE kind of guns, we carry hunting rifles and shotguns only. Click." when I called a gunshop asking about an AR-15.

          Having said that, I'm a card-carrying member of the NRA, and I play paintball, but I don't really see much of a correlation between the two. Yes, there are some overlaps, but Guns & Ammo should really be about guns and ammo, not paintball.

          I fear for personal liberties sometimes...

          Comment

          • Mossman
            habitual line stepper
            • Oct 2001
            • 3751

            #6
            You cant wish to convert people, only inform, which you did incredibly. . In the end everyone has to decide for themselves, and when people already decided after not knowing ANYTHING about the sport, I wouldn't expect them to read your whole commentary, let alone be swayed by it.

            Personally Army, there are plenty of ways to find more players. I'd say you should try and do your part making the current pb magazines more readable and enlightening
            My Feedback

            "Game...Blouses"

            Comment

            • Army
              Moderator of DOOOOOOOOMMM!

              • Oct 2000
              • 5785

              #7
              Oh I'm not trying to recruit new players, I was attempting to point out that ignorance is bad enough in PAINTBALL, much less in the rest of the shooting community.

              As I said, I don't want an article on how the game has progressed, Grandpa Jones couldn't give a flying one about that. I want an article on how the technology evolved with our sport.

              Comment

              • mike e
                Registered User
                • Jul 2002
                • 147

                #8
                my .02 cents.

                you have some good defences and i think we can all agree that sarah brady can go to the wrong place and do the bad thing, however, the seperation between firearms and paintball is essential to further the sport into the mainstream and keep it from being skewed by the firearms that up untill so recently they were associated with. if firearm magazines promoted paintball, we would be regressing from some of our most previous victories. i too am a avid G&A reader and have been since i was 9, but i do not want to have my two hobbies considered one and the same. its hard enough explaining a game where you shoot your friends let alone refereing to a article in guns and ammo to boot. on a side note, ive found that my snap shooting for paintball has really helped my small game and trap shooting fair, i follow much better now. and my final opinion on those kids in anchoridge, people will do bad things regardless, had those kids flogged someone with softball bats, would tee-ball become regulated? no. i feel our country on the whole is biased towards firearms and i am a true advocate of the 2nd amendment and what it symbolizes to me, i flagship for the other amendments on which to stand and defiantly stand in the face of a government with no faith in its followers.

                army im sorry if this sounds offensive, i love america, but i often times disagree with the choices of many of her leaders and their policies both home and abroad. this is in no way meant to bash those who proudly serve our country, on the contrary i hold those who serve on a seperate level, this is just my opinion on poloticians who were elected just because we hated the other guy more.
                mostly he was insaine but he had fleeting moments of mere stupidity

                Comment

                • dansim
                  ive been busy
                  • Jun 2001
                  • 4479

                  #9
                  Why intermingle what were so painfully trying not to be?
                  We dont want the term guns associated with paintball no matter how safe, and how angry does it make you to see your usual paintball mags in the guns section away from all the usual sports(ive actually talked to quite a few bookstore managers and changed there placements ) now what happens if some nut screw job looking for the next thing to bring against paintball finds this article(if published) in a gun magazine? I dont care how well its written it will still be seen in a GUN mag, and there fore bring unfortold negetive press, i say let your gunowners have there mags well have ours and who knows maybe someday theyll pick up a wrong copy somehow and be suckered into the sport but lets not through gas on the fire FOR the media
                  lets keep us away from dangerous intermingilings(sp)

                  Dan

                  ps no offense i like guns too 4yrs 10mtn div as 11c, i knwo the safety deal but its not what we need at this time

                  Comment

                  • Rooster
                    Registered User
                    • Oct 2000
                    • 1069

                    #10
                    i feel our country on the whole is biased towards firearms and i am a true advocate of the 2nd amendment and what it symbolizes to me, i flagship for the other amendments on which to stand and defiantly stand in the face of a government with no faith in its followers.
                    Which is exactly why its important that gun owners and paintball players should unite. It doesn't matter how you try to present it, to the far left wing paintball will always be a war game. As long as paintball is played by shooting a projectile, its on their hit list.

                    But this isn't Nazi Germany, and just becuase a minority of zealots would rather the American people be sheep instead of citizens, doesn't mean its going to happen. The more people who band together against zealots who want to control our lives for their personal goals, the better chance we have of ridding their ilk from our society.
                    Last edited by Rooster; 08-06-2002, 07:47 AM.

                    Comment

                    • KamikazeChiKenz
                      mmm, mmm, good
                      • Apr 2002
                      • 492

                      #11
                      Great job Army

                      I think you did an excellent job in defending our sport. I too am an avid outdoorsman and compete in the shooting sports as well as playing paintball. I beleive the two are seperate in their own respects but should be equally defended. Thanks Army


                      Comment

                      • irbodden
                        Registered User
                        • Dec 2000
                        • 3413

                        #12
                        Haha,

                        "In Alaska, some teenagers used paintball guns for a violent crime!"

                        ...and guns aren't?

                        There are weirdos who abuse EVERYTHING.

                        Comment

                        • aaron_mag
                          Registered User
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 1375

                          #13
                          Very interesting post. It is hypocritical. I met a Vietnam veteran in a paintball shop once. He had been adamantly against paintball and had constantly lectured his stepson about how it promoted violence. He had also explained that once you have been in combat you would never find a game that "simulates war" fun.

                          He of course eventually tried it once and was hooked!!! (He was laughing at himself the entire time he told me the story) I think many avid outdoorsman would feel the same way if they gave it a try (at a field that enforced the proper safety rules).
                          ULE Body Level 10 Automag intelliframe + retrovalve

                          Comment

                          • lunchbox
                            Big Dude
                            • May 2002
                            • 69

                            #14
                            these are the same people who say im not paying 1500 dollars for a gun i cant kill someone with ???? hmm paintball guns used in crime...uhh you wont buy a gun you cant kill someone with and you wont buy something that is used in a crime..hehe everytime i tell someone i payed 1100 dollars for a emag they say im not paying 1100 dollars for a gun i cant shoot someone with..
                            hunters and gun buff's seem to all have the same mental attitude that if i cant kill id rather be ...nm cya
                            God sent his angels to earth because he equiped his team with Emags.

                            Comment

                            • aaron_mag
                              Registered User
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 1375

                              #15
                              Another thing that you might want to mention is that paintball makes you think. I DON'T LIKE GUNS. I had always been in favor of more control on guns (including a complete ban on hand guns) despite my brother and father being avid gun collectors.

                              Then I got dragged into paintball and surprisingly found that I really liked it. I read about people abusing paintball equipment and think, "I play safe. Why should I be punished for because someone else is a moron with no common sense?"

                              Of course it didn't take me long to realize that this was the same argument my father and brother have been telling me all these years. Started making me rethink my views on gun control.
                              ULE Body Level 10 Automag intelliframe + retrovalve

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