AGD using alluminum...

[angelKiller16]

hey my mag valve is 10 years old and running stronger then ever. Seriusly it runs like any brand new mag out of the factory. I can't believe it's durabilty.

[thei3ug]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
People want lighter guns.

People want pretty colors on their guns.

People for the most part don't care if their gun is made out of the best materials or not.

Stainless steel is a great material and it's made the Mag a gun that can shoot just as good as it did 10 years ago but people don't care about that. Aluminum allows the Mags to be anodized in every color anyone would want, it makes the guns lighter and it allows for more customization since it's easy to mill.

AGD has found to give people want they want and aluminum gives them what they want. The Xtreme won't be a 10 year gun like standard Mags. The valve field strip screw hole will wear out since the threads are now aluminum. The barrel threads will wear out for the same reason and so on.

The vast majority of paintballers are now looking at the Xtreme because it looks better, will come in all sorts of fades and colors, is lighter and uses a threaded barrel. They don't care about the long term reliability and the majority of paintballers don't own a gun over 1 year so that is why AGD is going to aluminum. Not to save money or make the gun easier to manufacture, but to give people what they want.

Not fair. I have markers made of brass that have lasted longer than ten years. And a few aluminum that are coming darn close as well, the anno has barely started to wear on the threads. Read your post further down... it does have a lot to do with how you treat them, and where the wear from the action is.

[davej946]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
AGD has found to give people want they want and aluminum gives them what they want. The Xtreme won't be a 10 year gun like standard Mags. The valve field strip screw hole will wear out since the threads are now aluminum. The barrel threads will wear out for the same reason and so on.

Sounds like I need to revisit my Christmas list. I don't want to spend (or ask someone else to spend) $1500 on a gun that won't last. That's ridiculous!

If the field strip screw is going to strip out, that's $300 on a new valve. If the barrel threads are going to strip out, that's ~ $300 on a new body! Not good.

This sounds a lot like my Tippy M98. The valve screws stripped on that. Never buying a Tippmann again... I'm afraid of revealing a trend there.

So here's a thought: I am no idiot, but I'm no certified Mag tech either. Would it be possible to swap the rear portion (the 'XMag' portion of the valve) for the ReTro Portion of my Retro Valve (the Black part) and use the stainless front from my ReTro Valve? Seems like a waste not to.

Thoughts? Later ~ Dave

[BlackVCG]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13668

Here, read Tom's post from last year on this subject.

[thei3ug]

I'm sorry, but this reasoning just doesn't sit.

I haven't bought a "new" marker in 5 years. And none of mine have failed. or gone out of tolerance.

[Pand0ra]

They will wear like everything do.
If you take care of your marker it'll last forever.

99% of the time the threads are damaged because poeople overtight the screws (a quarter of a turn before it breaks...). Or they don't keep the barrels aligned with the body when they screw it in.

Magman007, the 7000 series aluminium is quite hard to anodise from what I heard. That's probably why they don't use it for the body (and it's probably not needed either).

@++

[magman007]

It cannot be all that hard to annodize, my lacrosse sticks are both 7000series, or Alcoa C405. Both of them are identical with a pretty blue annodize. and they olny cost about 50 bux. The annodized lacrosse shafts do not cost more than the silver ones. and there are an abundance of them, so i cannot see it being all that hard. oh well. doesnt boter me that much. annodizing is a strengthining process any ways. and if it is a good annodize (unlike WDP's) it should last for a good long time.


Also, an Alcoa C405 body would kick so much arse. it would be so light!

[thei3ug]

Part of that is the type of aluminum WDP uses in making the Angel, not just the anno.

[magman007]

[rhetor22]

Your lacrosse shaft doesn't fade into 3 different colors either.

I'm sort of with tom on this one... SS is such a better material. The fact that its heavier is a good thing!

The mag is a small gun, but its still got weight to it. To me, that means QUALITY.


But as Tom stated, he does what people tell him to do on the forum. MOST people don't really care about the quality as much they do about the weight and the looks.

I go for quality of materials. Its why i bought the mag.


Everything is made out of alluminum these days... oh well.

I bet Tom would much rather keep the valves at least SS, seeing that he's a pretty snazzy engineer. but he's gotta put food on the table, and loads of paint in the air in less than a second.



This is reminding me of cars... they just keep getting crappier and crappier and the price just keeps on goin up.

[Laxpunk2006]

Magman007, I'm pretty sure lacrosse shafts aren't annodized. I think it's just paint. A friend of mine striped all of the color off with finger nail polish remover. Plus it fades really easily after extended use. Don't quote me I'm not positive, but I think it's just paint.

[magman007]

[thei3ug]

Originally posted by magman007

it's softer than 6061... don't remember the type offhand. It just doesn't anodize as well, and the tolerances are so close on an angel that after a few strips and reannoes, they're loose as can be. aaron from aka actually tried to type III hardcoat one, with less than satisfactory results.

[Dern]

Hmmmm... so the 7000 series aluminum is what he new mags are gonna be made out of.. and 7000 series aluminum is C405??! That's actually quite nice

C405 is very strong.... its better then Titanium alloy!

By the way... Anyone heard about that Liquid Metal stuff? ITs stronger then steel and light as aluminum/ titanium.... (something like that). The downside of it is it costs a ton.

[_Spork_1]

Originally posted by BlackVCG

AGD has found to give people want they want and aluminum gives them what they want. The Xtreme won't be a 10 year gun like standard Mags. The valve field strip screw hole will wear out since the threads are now aluminum. The barrel threads will wear out for the same reason and so on.

who the heck strips there barrel threads, i have never ever heard of that, in 3 years of paintball, you would literally have to tie the barrel to somethign and pull it out by using a machine or car, to strip the threads

i think they went with aluminum to: get a better ano job, because they wanted a new high end emag, better milling and esier to mill, its a hugh 3d millin job, the extreme w/ ss woulda taken so long if they could even do it

and emags had a problem with being on the heavy, side not a problem with me, but i know a lot of people that are like, its oo heavy, my gz owns whooooooo.......

if aluminum is working for all the other guns why wont it work for the EXmag