Concerns with extreme emag

[shartley]

Originally posted by MagDog68


The RTP is like the middle child - not the old reliable or the new shiney marker. Think about it, most people would go the few extra hundred for the E-Mag or they will just upgrade their Automag68s. You can pick up a used emag for the cost of a new RTP for goodness sake!

I'm not saying that the gun is dead, I just don't see the market for that gun surviving too much longer. People just don't want a high level mechanical gun anymore unless it says "cocker" after the "auto" part. Maybe the new proto bodies will make it a more attractive buy.

~Fred

[shartley]

Originally posted by luke
:)
shartley,
I partially agree with you in terms of production, after all it's the business I've been in for the past 12 years, I understand it well and frankly I'm good at it. But, it's Tom's busness not ours.

There are always way's to produce more, whether it's from reorganizing the way you are currently doing things, investing money in better equipment, or hiring more people. One thing to keep in mind is that he uses outside "contractors (as far as I know) to build/ manufacture the individual peace's, so your partially at the mercy of them. Sure there are ways around those problems, but for what ever reason(s) Tom has chosen a number for production he feels is feasible.

As far as the money is concerned, (if it is a concern, perhaps it was a little presumptuous on my part) that really is a little to personal to say much about. Everyone has a different opinion on what is the best way to spend or invest their money, whether it's business or personal. So, too say someone should go deeper than what they are comfortable doing isn't right.

Boy I hope I didn't pick a fight with shartley, if so I concede right now. (i don't type very fast.)

[cphilip]

Originally posted by shartley

No, I said that...well was implying that...well...You know what I mean...

[shartley]

HeeHee you both said it. I was typing when you posted yours Phil.
From him:

Maybe the new proto bodies will make it a more attractive buy.

From you:

They certainly sell enough cockers. And with the upgrades planned for it with aluminum bodies there is your head to head competion. It certainly puts any of them to shame.

From ME:
It seems we are in AGREEMENT!

[cphilip]

Heck!!!! I am locking this one right now and moving it to Historic!!!! What are the odds of this?


(note to self buy lottery tickets on way home)

[shartley]

[Phil]

I started with a RTP and now shoot an E-Mag. I love AGD products. Tom's post that sparked this thread irritated me to high heaven and illustrates one of the things that frustrates me a great deal about AGD. They appear to their customers to have a complete lack of business sense. What would cause a company to research and hype an awesome new product and then produce so small an ammount that they run out before the production run is complete is beyond me. One of the basics of business is DO NOT RUN OUT OF PRODUCT. Customers don't care about the reasons why you ran out, they just feel let down. I am not saying this to be mean, I just needed to express my frustrations. In many ways AGD is a great company. They just need to get their heads out of their -BLEEP- with reguards to marketing and production. I am not unmindful of the fact that there are economic pressures on small companies. If you only had the capital to produce 150 then it would have been wise to release them in whats called a Soft Sell and save your advertising for your full production run.

Loyal but Frustrated AGD Customer
Phil

[ben_JD]

A little off-topic, but I don't think that the general paintball world has been aware of the "hoop-la" surrounding the Extreme as we are, here in our AO world. It seems that every time I talk about this marker, most of the people (who haven't heard my rant before) haven't even heard more than rumors about a new E-Mag.

If what I said is true, there really won't be a backlash, because there really isn't that much to backlash against. The Extreme will start showing up at rec. fields in early-mid 2003 and then the excitement will start. By then, hopefully, AGD will be ramped up to handle the demand.

On the other hand, I really wish that AGD would get these out the door more rather than less quickly. I just don't know that the damage for trickling out these first guns will be as great as some of you fear; though I do share your general impatience.

[cphilip]

Thats an interesting point of view Ben...I guess to some degree you may be right. We do kind of live in a fish bowl here. Hope you are right.

[shartley]

Originally posted by cphilip
Thats an interesting point of view Ben...I guess to some degree you may be right. We do kind of live in a fish bowl here. Hope you are right.

[cphilip]

[aaron_mag]

This is an interesting debate and I think that alot of people are bringing up some good points. As far as AGD pressing the Extreme and forgeting about their other products I don't feel that way. I was so happy that the Level 10 could make my automag better and not force me to buy a new marker to handle chopping issues. Then there was the retrovalve which was another great upgrade. When the protobodies come out I really look forward to having a low rise body for my mag (hopefully with the integrated sight rail). I don't feel abandoned at all......

As for the Extreme yes there has been hype and it is pretty and I would like one but then comes the question of priority. I'm sure Shartley and the rest of the adults out there would agree that it isn't that you can't afford one but the question of what is the best use of money. Should I make an extra payment on the house/put in it in the college fund for the kids OR buy a shiny new toy for myself? Thats why I'm glad that AGD is also putting some focus on upgrades so that the rec players out here can have the joy of fondling a new product but not going to extreme (pun intended).

Hmmmmmm. Now that I wrote this I'm not sure if I am agreeing or disagreeing with the rest of you out there. Must be Alzheimer's......

[Dragoon]

I think Ben is going in the right direction.

We have a unique position here at AO. The owner of the company that produces the markers we like has opened a window into the process of designing new products. For this Tom gets a lot of valuable feedback. While we get a sneak preview of whats going to be available. Because of this, we as a whole, seem to be impatient. As soon as we see a good idea or a prototype we want it right away.

If it wern't for AO I'd have no idea that there is an Extreme and I wouldn't be bouncing off the walls waiting for one.

So what I'm trying to say is that we have to keep in mind where we are in the new product development stage.

Well that's if from me. Sorry if this comes off preachy.

Douglas.

[battlegroup]

As most o fyou have said, it would be great If AGD could get more out quicker. However, I have seen firsthand that most players outside of AO do not know much about the Extreme. I went to my local store last week looking for some misc. equipment and mentioned the extreme. Not a single person in the store knew what I was talking about. Now I'm in a small town but we have several paintball fields, it seems the news may not be out all over. I usually play a lot of the bigger games and I will defietly be showing my extreme off at these places.
I think that the die hard Mag fans (which is just about everyone that has a mag) will wait for the gun. The rest of the world will learn as the number of extremes grows. Not because it's the best way to do it, but because it's the best AGD can do right now and still live up to it's name. An angel owner, or 'cocker owner who loves their gun, is not going to run out and buy a mag they have never shot because of hype. Only people who are loyal to AGD will do that. I personally have been a mag owner for 6 years and have owned 3 other guns in that time period as well and I certainly didn't hesitate to drop the cash for this marker.
Don't worry about the numbers. AGD will put forth the best product as fast as they can. As the kinks in production get worked out they will come faster. Will supply ever reach demand? Who knows, but I already preordered mine and kind of like the fact I will have a marker of such high quality that very few others do.

just my 2 cents

[hitech]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
As far as AGD...forgetting about their other products I don't feel that way. I was so happy that the Level 10 could make my automag better and not force me to buy a new marker to handle chopping issues. Then there was the ReTro valve which was another great upgrade. When the proto-bodies come out...I don't feel abandoned at all...

That would be my feeling also. I remember Tom talking about the level 10 upgrade at the NPPL tournament in LA. It was much different then. It would have been very expensive to retro fit an existing marker. Tom actually told me that since I wasn't having problems with barrel breaks now that it wasn't worth it. I sure that the look of disappointment on my face is what caused him to rethink level 10.

The ReTro valve (with the go ReTro program) allowed pre Automag RT owners a chance to upgrade without replacing their entire marker.

And let's not forget the Intelliframe. It also fits existing markers.

It seems to me that the loyal customer base has NOT been forgotten. And that is the best reason to be a loyal customer.