cocker question

[big E kingpin]

i have a ptp sleeper cocker, and its got the sto low pressure internals, i am putting togather an orderof upgrades i want, and i came across the ratt valve. my question is if i install that, will that effect the low pressure opperation of the gun?

[Ov3rmind]

It will allow you to drop the operating pressure a little bit. However, if you really wan't the best LP valve, save up for the AKALMP Tornado, it's worth it. It'll allow you to drop your pressure lower than a Rat valve and still keep the efficiency moderately high (although this has a ton to do with your main and valve springs). My personal suggestion is to not worry about your operating pressure, it doesn't really matter how low it is. What you should look into is lowering your cycling pressure.

[big E kingpin]

im not sure i understnad what you mean cycling pressure?

[Ov3rmind]

Cycling pressure=cocking pressure: This is the air pressure that is used to cycle your backblock forward and backward to cock the gun. It can be adjusted using your low pressure regulator (on the front block).

Operating pressure=firing pressure: This is the pressure used to fire the paintball. It is adjusted using your inline regulator.

[paint magnet]

The operating pressure is the pressure the gun fires the ball with, the cycling, aka cocking pressure is the pressure going into the 3 way valve to activate the ram and recock the gun. The lower this is, the better. A new valve will have no effect over the cocking pressure. Go to www.air-powered.com to learn more about cockers.

The Tornado valve is arguably better than the rat valve, because it has a larger opening for the air to move through. But if you are using it on a stock body, the air chamber drilled into the body is smaller than the hole on the valve, thus defeating the purpose. But if you're running an aftermarket body that has an enlarged air chamber, like the AKA cockers, then that is when you'll get the biggest advantage and see the biggest difference. The MacDev RED valve is also very close in performance to the Tornado, but the hole on the valve ratio to the hole in the body is 1:1, meaning it will be more efficient. Since you have an aftermarket body, though, (and I'm not sure what the diameter of the air chamber is)you might get better results out of the Tornado. (but probably only means the difference between 250 psi and 225) Also, lowering the firing pressure does nothing but decrease efficiency. It does not affect ball breakage or make the gun much quieter. In fact, it will often make the gun less consistant and more picky about paint. I have a cocker with stock internals and it works a lot better running 350 psi than the 290 psi it's capable of running.

The pneumatic regulator is what adjusts the cocking pressure. All you have to do is turn the pressure all the way down on it, and gradually turn it up until the gun fires reliably, then you're done. You can even get the bolt to bounce off your finger like with the level 10 kit.

[Ov3rmind]

Actually, as far as I know, Proteam uses WGP bodies for their Cockers. So the aftermarket performance LP valves would probably do about as well on the F/X as they would on a WGP Cocker.

Lowering the pressure does not necassarily make a Cocker less efficient. Many people try to lower the pressure on their own, and end up messing up their gas efficiency however. If you know what you're doing, you can lower the operating pressure and maintain decent or even better efficiency. Much of it has to do with your hammer and valve springs. Generally a heavy hammer (with a light hammer spring) and a heavy valve spring will yeild excellent efficiency results. A good exapmle of this is the Freeflow hammer/valve combo.

[big E kingpin]

paint magnet, do you personally know how to make the bolt bounce like a lx? does this slow the rate of fire down? could you fill me in on the that would be great thenks for all the info guys

[Ov3rmind]

You can make a Cocker's bolt bounce off of paint by lowering the cocking/cycling pressure (not to be confused with operating pressure). A lot of this is just tuning your LPR and having a light main spring (use a lighter main spring in combination with a heavier hammer. I would HIGHLY suggest a Freeflow Tungsten hammer and super light main spring for this). Always make sure that you have a heavier valve spring than main spring though, this will help maintain good efficiency and consistancy. Another good idea is to have a lightweight bolt, like the AKALMP Lightning bolt. Using the right ram can help, but it isn't really required to make a Cocker pinch (STO rams are excellent for low cocking pressures). Once you have done most of this, make sure that you know how to adjust your LPR. Turn it as low as it can go before it doesn't fully recock, than turn it up a tad, you can never be sure that during rapid fire your LPR wont lag slightly in recharge rates. I would also suggest having your operating pressure on the higher end (not extremely high, just don't try to lower it too much). That way you can back out your IVG some, and less pressure will be required to bring the hammer's lug over the sear. After finishing this, you should have a Cocker that is capable of pinching paint.

[banzaimf]

Getting a cocker to pinch paint is a function of 4-way sealing up at a very low pressure and the lowest possible pressure to actuate your ram.

Back in the day... ie when dinosaurs roamed the earth and Cockers were hand tuned to be "custom", there were a few tricks to do this

Ram, strip the ram apart and polish the internals with brasso or nevr dull. I used stock brass front at the time and used brasso.

4-way, strip it apart and LIGHTLY polish the inside of the 4-way with brasso or never dull.

Get a good aftermarket front reg and away you go. While the heavy hammer/light mainspring does help. It is not necessary to get a cocker to pinch paint. I set up cocker 14897 to pinch paint (old glossy brick style, circa 1993) with stock hammer and a little lighter springs. It is a pin in the butt to get it set up correctly, but when you do, it is a great thing.


banzaimf

[big E kingpin]

will tis tunning effect the rate of fire i am getting from the gun, cause i can rip it faster then my mag, im stunned and amazed. i just bought an ans jackhammer 2 and a bomb 4-way, and some darlin tri hole bolt its vry light.
i realy appreiciate all the help.

[Rancid Milk]

I would get a tornado valve, you won't regret it.

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

[paint magnet]

That came from air-powered by the way, you can find just about anything you want to know about cockers there.

Delrin bolts, heavier hammers with lighter springs and high output valves will help you run at lower pressures. Technically, I guess a valve would let you run lower cocking pressures, because the less force you need to open the valve means the lighter the spring you can have, which means the less pressure you need to recock it. Anyway, good luck with your gun. Cockers are really fun once you learn about them.

[big E kingpin]

thanks guys