Black dragun?

[Canadian GP]

My son is hoping to move up from his RAS to a Black Dragun LCD for Christmas. Has anyone in here used one? Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking.

[automan39]

I have used the black dragun extensivly and its a nice gun but i would much rather get a JT 5.0 or 6.0 or maybe a PMI e-force

[Smokee_2_7]

Yes.

Before I begin, what's a RAS?

In short, stay away from them( Black Draguns)

I am familiar with the guns, and the company that makes them. There are MUCH more reliable products on the market, for basiclly the same price.

If you want my full-blown-lowdown on the black dragun ( and ALL it's 'versions' i.e. sniper and "M3patriotcustomstarsandstripes" (I've heard WAY too many kids say that one to me, only to be dissapointed later. . ) Then please just ask- - If you want that information, Im more than happy to supply it. However, If you don't really want "the full story" then I'll just save the time typing a lengthy post.

Look into a Spyder E99, Or if LCD functions are a 'must have', the Spyder flash.

Finally, to credit my opinion, I am the assistant manager at a field/ proshop. Additionally, I happen to live in the same town as M3 (makers of the black Dragun) operates out of. I have sold the markers in the past,(picked them up from M3 personally across town) and Refuse to do so now. I will not sell a product that has repeatedly had my customers unsatisfied and failed to perform reliably.


Like I said, there's alot more, Just ask if you'd like to hear it.

[darklord]

Black draguns are horrible. If he wants a cheap electro, a spyder would be a lot better. They're a great beginner's gun: easy to fix, simple to learn, no short stroking, no timing required.

[FreshmanBob]

i heard the wgp e-ranger is pretty nice too, comes with a drop, on/off, stock cocker reg an 2 peice barrel. Cocker threading too i think, so eventually he can go to an autococker, or better yet, a micromag

[thevilduk]

the em-1 from sypder is a nice gun... my friend has one, nice snappy trigger pull. Its totaly electro-pnumatic but you can't go wrong with the performance/price ration. Just somthing to consider. Its aboot 220 i think.

[Brak]

contrary to what they say, i play with someone who uses a black dragun basic (lcd is a bit better), and i have to say it is a nice gun.

[elpimpo]

Dont buy a spyder your kid will have nothing but problems in the long run. spyders start off decent but then they start breaking and then its all over because they just keep breaking. my budie has an e ranger and there pretty sweet, quick but dont like the cold at all but thats about it. the black dragun has been on and off for me. ive seen them be just awesome and then ive seen them die after a day. i would look into the e ranger or even an automag. the automag will keep your kid very happy and its extremely durable. the tippman may also be another option, very easy to upgrade dont brake very often but every once in a while. but personally i like the automag to start off with.

[darklord]

Dont buy a spyder your kid will have nothing but problems in the long run. spyders start off decent but then they start breaking and then its all over because they just keep breaking

what the hell are you smoking??? spyders are the most basic guns ever. You can easily take them apart to clean and fix them... the worst problem you'll have is a broken o-ring or bad cupseal. Tippmanns are durable, but they're long and are newbie guns. A spyder will hold off your son until he's ready to run with the big dogs.

[Smokee_2_7]

Ugh. here I go.


Here's the deal.

First off, the reason I will not sell black draguns anymore is because we (my business) give free lifetime labor on any gun that we sell. If you come back in 4 years after buying a gun, and it has a little bitty leak, It will only cost you the $2-$3 part. Even if (for some reason) it takes me an hour to fix.

When the black draguns first came out, the buzz was pretty great on them. Expecially with the home company being here in mobile with us, of course we jumped on the band wagon. My boss (owner and manager) even went to mardi gras (and played with) M3. They all shot the 'new' balck dragun. This was actually before I started working for him. Later on in the year, after I was working for the shop, we continued to market and sell the black draguns as "the best bang for the buck". Heck, for the price, it really WAS the best performance- - - who cares that it was a sypder rip-off. Yes, spyder rip off. Actually, there was a lawsuit recently settled between Kingman and M3 over patent stuff. The specs on the guns were identical.

Well, time goes by, and people start having problems with thier draguns. During a 6 month long 3-man night league we hosted this past year, TONS of players were shooting the balck draguns. (M3 was tossing them out free like it was candy on halloween. EVERYBODY was 'sponsored' by M3)

The guns' sears started wearing alot. More than they should have. Multiple people were let down during crucial game moments by a gun that, all of a sudden, would not re-cock itself. Of course, the M3 guys on hand fixed the problems (all ya have to do is stick an allen wrench in there and re-adjust the sear) but the guns kept going out when it mattered most.

Well, night league comes and goes, and now we have alot of the guns that WE sold comming back with the same problems. Of course, we serviced them for free. Well, that really stared to be alot of time. Eventually almost everyone that had one they bought from us wound up selling it.

Next, here's a nice specific story. A now regular customer of mine comes into the shop about 2 months ago, and asks the manager some 'marker questions. He asked about 'draguns, and my boss told him. (keep in mind that we still have 3 on the wall, that I tell people not to buy. Will probably use them as an 'upgraded rental' so we can at least get our money out of them.

Well, the guy decides that a M98 would be a better buy for him. He dosent buy one that day.

The next day, the same customer comes in with 2 Model 98s. Then, he tells his story.

He had gotten a "patriot" edition black dragun right from M3 about a month and a half before. Every friday, for 5 weeks. .. he was back in there having the gun worked on. It kept crapping out on him. They kept fixing it for free. . as they should have. Finally, on the 5th trip, they inform him that the "free" warranty has expired, and now he will have to pay for work on a gun that had not worked reliably since day one. He tells them he wants a refund. THey say no. They DID offer him shop credit. He winds up 'trading' the black dragun for 2 model 98s. He traded one of them to us for RT and expansion chamber installation on the other. He never looked back.




There's more, but I'll have to add it in later. . My girlfriend is on me about going out for dinner

To be contiued.

[yeahthatsme]

a spyder is a great choice( the black dragon isnt all that great). my first gun was a spyder sport(for sale) and my first electro(second gun) was a spyder e-99(for sale also) but alas i shot a mag and i am hooked so thats my next(and final until i have enough for an x-mag) gun. i would honestly and whole-heartedly suggest a mag. i had never seen one and in about 5 minutes i had learned how to take it apart and clean it out. plus with the level 10 chopping is eliminated. and the masive amounts of upgrades make it a gun that will last a lifetime.

[-=Squid=-]

I say buy a black dragun because they are cheaper, and they look better because you dont see the bolt move

[ben_JD]

Two of my teammates owed (past tense) Black Draguns and they performed like champions for the first two months. Thereafter, they were nothing but trouble, and now they have been relegated to "to be used only in dire emergency" category.

Simply put, they perform much like one would expect a $200 electronic marker to perform.

[puckmaster]

Personaly, I'd get one of the new Piranna E-forces(they look sorta like Angels) I never really liked dragons, just because getting parts for them is quite hard(there made in Japan or where ever) The e-forces can RIP on the field. There are probaly my favorite electronic blowback.

[Smokee_2_7]

puckmaster,

FYI, You're right. They are made overseas (Taiwan, to be exact.) However, that's not a really big deal. Heck, I can get alllll the parts I could ever want for one in just a 15 min. drive. . . . but it's the constantly changing them that kills me.


Anyway, to continue my rant. . .


So, the guy that had the patriot wound up changing it for a m98. He felt that the performance of the m98 was MUCH more reliable, and just better overall. Until he sold that one 2 weeks later and got a mag.(but thats a different story)


Another common problem I've encountered with these things is low velocity. Normally, on a spyder (or clone) low velocity is fixed by increasing the tension on the mainspring- - - installing a stiffer spring, adding spacers, ect. 2 kids that go to church with me were all excited about 'upgrading' from their spyders to the "patriot" *keep in mind this is just another black dragun, but with blue anno, and some graphic stars on it.*

I had encouraged them to look elswhere, but the were caught up in hype, and insisted that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. . . . I mentioned all this to their dad, and he decided to go ahead and let them have what they want. This was a couple months ago. Now, when I ask them about their guns, they just kinda shrug and say. . .'well, it's alright, i guess.' Neither one of them have been able to get their velocity above 250. I worked on one of the guns. Tried longer and stiffer springs, spacers. . everything I could think of. NOthing worked. I told them to take It back to the place where they bought it. They havent got around to it yet.

Combined with several cases of electronic problems (the parts in the grip frame are notoriously cheap) As well as the fact that a spyder or pirahanna with the same features is just a little more money, I believe that the black dragun is literally no more than a total waste of money, and generally a dissapointment as far as paintguns go.


elpimpo ,

The only spyders that I've seen problems (like REAL problems ) out of are the plastic ones at walmart. (i think it's the sport edition or sumthin. . )

Starting with the basic spyder compact, going all the way up to the Flash (LCD) I sell on the average around 2 or so a week. Everyone who buys one knows that, if there are ANY problems, they just take it back to the shop, and it's fixed for free.

The only spyders that come in for repair work are the ones with the following problems:

1. bad cup seal.
this is a $3 part, that can cause leakage down the barrel especially if dirt gets into the air line. The ulitmate fix is to go with a black magic cup seal. I have NEVER seen one of those go bad, and they run about $12.

2. User error/ abuse
This is usually improper maintence. Using the wrong kind of oil. Failure to ever clean the gun.


I have seen one or two other problems, but they are so isolated (consider that there are probably well over 100 spyders that are in active use around the shop on at least a semi regular basis that I consider them to not really be considered in the overall reliability of the gun. In conclusion, as long as the instructions for cleaning and maintence are followed, I have found spyders to be VERY reliable guns. I still see spyders from time to time that are from some of the first spyders. . .around 5 or so years old, and still working just fine.



There. . I think that's got most of it.

Hope this helps, Pleas let us know what your son winds up getting for christmas!


Carl