Smart Parts does it again...

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Vendetta
Ogre, isn't the Angel made in England? This is a US patent. Does this matter?

Not sure on this one, but I would think that England and the US would have some sort of agreements regarding international patent infringement.

Now I gotta go out and buy a hornbook on patent law. As if I didn't have enough other things to do.

Ogre

[Creative Mayhem]

I may be wrong, but I remember when the angel first came out. I don't seem to recall SP having any sort of electro at the time. All there was at the time was mechanicals, eg. mags, cockers, tippy's and VM's. The angel was a big, big deal back then, and I think I would have heard something about an electro from SP. I think this could have really broad implications, does this mean that they ae going to come after AGD, and every other company that has electros? What a load of hooey! I think this just a matter of one company not making markers good enough for the masses, and are trying to recoup their losses. Like I stated in the begining, I could be wrong.


C Mayhem

[a_malfunction]

PVI was the company that invented the shocker... It was out before the angel. Smart Parts must have purchased the patent (can you do that?) along with the design of the gun. I dont think that this will really do much harm to the industry. It might cause some guns to go up in price, but it shouldnt be that much.

[50 cal]

Originally posted by Vendetta
Ogre, isn't the Angel made in England? This is a US patent. Does this matter?

It wouldn't matter if the Angel stayed in England. If you bring it into the US you are bound by US Patent law. That is why there are US patent protection laws in effect here.

[Blazestorm]

PVI was the original creator of the shocker, not Smart Parts... smartparts saw a good design and stole it from PVI's hands.

I shot a PVI shocker with PLAIN co2 and it was shooting a beautiful 293-298. I had a 2k2 shocker right next to it, and gassed it up, leaking somewhere inside, took a couple of shots (Note : Had 68/45 maxflow) 260 310 289.

A guy at Splat Attack is a ref, has the first angel made, the PVI shocker, first cocker... first mag (Not first serial number wise, first as in first model) He had a flex 7 with the cheek area cut for more bouncage

Anyway, I think this is a way that smart parts will get more sales, hey no one can buy electros except from us!

You don't see any other company's getting pissed.

[magman007]

ok, remember that copied company who copied agd? they copied the six pack, and agd sued, and agd won... well that was alot of money... remeber when they copied the mag? and tom put em under by including free vl's? just bring up some nostalgia...

[Zargou]

PVI was the company that invented the shocker... It was out before the angel. Smart Parts must have purchased the patent (can you do that?) along with the design of the gun.

U can do it if u buy the Company .

Like Nvidia bought 3dfx and now they use a lot of 3dfx patents

[Pand0ra]

Originally posted by 50 cal


It wouldn't matter if the Angel stayed in England. If you bring it into the US you are bound by US Patent law. That is why there are US patent protection laws in effect here.

Manike could probably confirm this, but I'm 90% sure it's incorrect. US patents will protect you against other companies only in the United States (and maybe in the Canada too), and only if they build the thing in the country.

The patent is of no use if the thing is build in another coutry, and then imported. That's why you have patents which covers the world (and are very expensive too).

@++

[Vendetta]

The patent is of no use if the thing is build in another coutry, and then imported. That's why you have patents which covers the world (and are very expensive too).

That's what I thought.

[battlegroup]

I think it is nonsense to try to sue any of the companies for making an electronic marker. If the company was using a part that smart parts invented and their marker only worked with that part, then I could see suing. If smart parts goes after WDP or AGD or other manufacturer for just having an electro, I for one will boycott every smartparts product and I will do everything to convince others to as well. This can do nothing but put money in smartparts pocket and make the sport more expensive or less diverse for us. I will send an e-mail to smart-parts stating this as well. Who knows if we make it known that we will stop buying their stuff if they continue to press the issue maybe they will drop the case.

[KayleAGD]

How many solenoids does a busmaster and angel have ??????

and two electrically operated pneumatic flow distribution devices

[obsolete898]

I think this may hurt the sport if it goes as far as some people think it may.

On the other hand if I patented something and a bunch of other companies started to use the patented ideas, I'd sue the pants off them too. And so would 90% of you. Getting around patents is not that hard, you need to change it by a certain percentage and get a good lawyer.

Manike could probably confirm this, but I'm 90% sure it's incorrect. US patents will protect you against other companies only in the United States (and maybe in the Canada too), and only if they build the thing in the country.

I don't think that's right but we'll wait on confermation. I think if you import to the US you fall under thier law.

I do know that every cause of action under the sun have statutes of limitation that state that after a certain time (depending on the cause of action) an action can no longer be started

I do believe murder has no statue of limitation. Also I don't belive pantent law has them. For the simple reason that it may take a long time for you to find out some one is infringing on your pantnet. My Father's company got hit with one after 15 years of doing something he didn't know was patented.

Last words, you can be grand fathered past a patent. If you can prove you where producing or even had the idea first you can appeal with a good chance of wining.

[ogre55]

I do believe murder has no statue of limitation.

Causes of action are civil law. Murder is criminal law. Totally different animals. But you are right, at least in NY, the most severe crimes have no statutes of limitations. Less severe crimes and misdemeanors do.

Also I don't belive pantent law has them.

Some statutes of limitations are very long, as long as 20 years for certain civil actions in NY. Also, in certain situations the statute of limitations does not begin to run until you discover the wrong/incident/injury, such as in certain medical malpractice claims. Again, I do not know the law as it applies to patents, but now I want to find out.

Last words, you can be grand fathered past a patent. If you can prove you where producing or even had the idea first you can appeal with a good chance of wining.

Yes, this is called prior use. You have to show that you were using the patented idea prior to the filing of the patent. It's possible, although again, I will need to check this, that you may be able to show prior use is you were developing the your version of the patented product.

As for reverse engineering a technology to get by a patent, in the early days of personal computers AMD and/or Cyrix came out with the first x86 clone chips. Intel owned the patents on those chips. Intel took the AMD/Cyrix to court on patent infringement. AMD/Cyrix showed that while their chips did the same things as the Intel chips, they did them differently.

So if WDP and or ICD can show that their designs work differently from SP's, they should be able to get around the patent. However, this is very expensive and while we are talking about fairly successful companies (SP, WDP, ICD) They do not generate the same types of revenue as Intel, Cyrix or AMD.

This thing may die on it's own if WDP and ICD decide to fight rather than settle and SP realizes just how expensive such suits can be.

Ogre

[flatacid]

<--adding 2 things in this.

too the person saying the matrix might be involved. i doubt it. they use a solenoid, but they use a spool valve for there operations. only the bolt moves. with that different design, they should be safe.

too the person about odyssey and vl. you have it backwards. odyssey is suing brass eagle because of there evolution II. they claim that the evo II has many features that the halo has patented. if odyssey wins, brass eagle will have to pay royalties on each one sold.



that is all.

[wepu]

IANAL, but basically how U.S. patent law works is this:
1) you come up with something new.
2) you file for a patent. the invention is now patent pending. (patent pending is guaranteed to las no more than 3 years)
3) during the patent pending phase, the us patent office looks to see if anyone has invented this before. (this is know as "prior art") they also check to see if your patent is overly broad. (you make "claims" as to what the patent covers)
4) if the patent is accepted, you are granted a monopoly on those claims for 20 years, which can be extended under some circumstances. (polaroid was granted an extension on the self-developing film after kodak was found to be violating a polaroid patent a while ago. in the 1980s, i think) no one else can produce products using those patents in this time.
5) you may license the patent to other companies, or sell the patent outright.
6) after the patent expires, it is no longer valid, and anyone can make products including your product. it is considered to be in the "public domain"

Most of the founding fathers believed that providing benefits in the form of a monopoly to patent holders would increase innovation. (ben franklin, in typical fashion, thought the concept was flawed, and that people could sit on patents and not let others innovate.) This is not a new kind of case. People have been filing patent lawsuits in the US for more than 200 years, and for longer in europe.

It seems to me that Smart parts is perfectly within their rights to patent, and also in their rights to sue the pants off of anyone who they think is infringing on their patents. That is what patents are for. Whether system is flawed, or smart parts's patent is too broad is a completely seperate issue. Smart parts simply went through the proper procedure, and got a patent.

The way I see it, the WDP vs. Smart Parts case could go one of three ways:
1) Smart parts wins, the patent is found to cover the angel. Smart parts will get either a) money, b) a court order stopping wdp from selling angels in the US, or both
2) WDP wins, because the function of the angel is found to be different enough from the claims on the patent. In this case the patent is still in force, and SP can sue other companies.
3) WDP wins, because they found prior art or another reason the patent would be invalidated. In this case the patent would cease to exist, and SP couldn't sue anyone else.