LP MAG *only problem with EMAG*

[Dragoon]

My advice is carefully check your lvl 10 setup. Look for a small leak down the barrel. If you have one, switch to a smaller carrier. If you don't have a leak, you'll have to decide what you want more. lvl 10 or better air consumption.

Douglas

[boomerfoxtrot]

thanks for all your help..

my set up..

EMAG LX, .5 carrier, *only one size smaller*
Freak, with 12" Freak Front

Revy
and I match paint... I have the full kit..

[cphilip]

That ported freak is costing you some efficency too. You give some of that up for quite.

Volume discarged per shot has nothing to do with what the operating pressure is. I think that has been well said here. In fact Cockers have some of the highest "on the ball" pressures of all of the markers. My cocker doesn't get all that much better shots per tank than any other mag I have. However my mags will stop around 800 psi now with level 10 and the Cocker will shoot on down to about 300 or so. Thats the only difference I see. So when it comes to what the pressure is blasting onto the ball each shot that is why people call LP a myth. In that case its true.

I find the advantages of Level 10 to be so great I can and will give up the 300 or so left in the tank psi to use it. You just have to fill up a little more is all. Whats that like 1 or 2 more times in a days play?

[Kevmaster]

yeh, boomer, if you can, drop a lapco on that gun or other similar UNPORTED barrel. thatll increase your FPS by 10-15prolly.

and yeh, a 4500psi fill hot, will turn into ~4000psi cold, and then the LX doenst let you shoot below 600, so 3400psi is what you have to work with

[ezrunner]

LP/HP Efficiency

Each marker with a given valve and set of springs will have
an optimum operating pressure for efficiency.

My bushmaster runs 1700 shots from a 68/4500 and shoots at 165psi.
You can run it as low as 140, but you loose efficiency. You
can run it higher, but you loose efficiency.

My AKA Merlin will shoot 2000 shots from a 68/4500. I don't
know what it runs at. What is comes down to is that for a given
flow path (Ie from from the reg ot the back of the ball, there
will be an ideal amount of pressure to use, and there will
be an ideal amount of time to maintain that pressure.

The cockers allow you to tune the weight of the valve spring
and the hammer spring to acheive this. The Bushmaster,
angel, timmy, impulse, etc allow you to tune the LPR and the dwell
settings for the same reason.

The mag could be redesigned to use less pressure, but then
there would be design trade offs. Tom decided at some point
that his criteria focused on
building a marker that was ultra
reliable, and ultra fast to
recharge. The accuracy and other
concerns were taken into this also. That is where the barrel
design came from.

At the time the shot count the mag had was not bad at all.
Now, there has been some maturation of the 2 and 3 tube
designs and they have gotten to be very gas efficient. The
mag should try to get better in this regard.

I honestly don't care how much pressure the gun runs on.

What I do care about is that if I walk on the field w/ 1200
rnds, I can dump my pack in a game and not run out of air.

I ran out of air in a tourney before and it cost my team at
least one elimination and a flag pull. Nobody blamed me but I was upset.

I was shooting a cocker that was tuned for lp, not for
efficiency. I then made changes to the tuning and
got it to run longer on a tank.

The goal for a tournament marker should be:

whatever paint you carry on the field, the marker should
get you through that game.

The marker should be accurate enough and fast enough to allow
you to play your chosen position.

The marker should be dependable enough that you
can make it through a hard day of tourney ball (2 - 5 cases)
and it will not go down.

That is what I look for. Right now I have a bushmaster
that does all this for me.
It went through xball and 10man at world cup (7 cases in 2 days?) and didn't cough
once.

I have a cocker that does it too.

When my mag is finished again, it will also be up to the task.

Tom: what would it cost us to get more efficiency out of the mag?
I am guessing rate of fire?

Personally, I want a marker that will do ~20bps. More than
that is too much. The high rate of fire allows you to
pop out, get 3 shots off and be back in your bunker before
the guy posted on you gets
paint to you.

-rob

[boomerfoxtrot]

Originally posted by cphilip
You just have to fill up a little more is all. Whats that like 1 or 2 more times in a days play?

haahahaha.. I wish..
I have to fill after every game... =[

and ... Tourny play, I'm not over happy with my EMAG..
the LX works great the first 2 games *case of paint* and then starts venting heavy...
then I change out to the smallest EVERYTHING, smallest carrier, and all... works good another game or so..
then starts venting...

so as far as heavy tourny play, I'm still trying to get my EMAG to set up right... it's gotten to the point where I am even thinking about trading it...

If I send the gun in to AGD would they update the board, and give it a look over, get the LX figured out, and get the gun shooting like emags claim they can?
cause personally.. I have the fastest, badest set up on the field... *I have mad trigger skills too* so all eyes are on the EMAG... and then they see the EMAG down, and having to be worked on during the day... =[


so as you can see... I'm tryn' to figure it out... and I don't know any AGD Techs down around Atlanta...

[cphilip]

Good post Rob.

Boomer you should be getting at least 1200 out of a 68/4500 with a good fill on it. Maybe a few more. Investigate a few things as to why. One is the Level 10 setting. You can give up a little of the softness on that thing by going to a less agressive setting. Many are using a stock spring on theirs with great success and a little better efficiency. And perhaps give on some the the barrel porting. Just a few tweaks will get you some more shots. However that tank preset at 750 can be a part of it. Are you certian its set at that? Level 10 likes a input to the regulator setting closer to 900 if it can get it.

[cphilip]

Venting where Boomer? Out the back? Down the barrel. You should rarely have to adjust for break in more than once. Sounds like something else is amiss here. Piston or regulator pin assembly maybe. Need some more info to help you. Yes you indeed sound like you have a set up problem and therefore this could explain some of your low shot count.

[boomerfoxtrot]

down the barrel..

I get it to seal... and it works fine for 500 shots or 1000 shots, and then it vents again down the barrel...

I have TWO full LX sets.. .so unless the bolt is messed up on both of them it's not the bolt..

I have used every match up I can think of...

and still leaks down the barrel..

I had it set Saturday, 1.5 carrier, 1 shem, med springs.. and it clocked in at 276,277,276 *we had to shoot under 280

two cases later... small vent down the barrel...
200 rounds later, big vent down the barrel...

and then I packed it up.. .

[mxracer33x]

Im not posting to argue over LP or HP issues, but I find it odd that I can get 950-1000 rounds out of an emag with level 10 on a Flatline 3000 set at 900psi, yet some of you barely get that out of a 4500 fill. I read a post by Havoc_online, I believe, that he gets almost a case out of a 4500 fill.

My marker is always cleaned and oiled after use, and I used the short spring and a tight carrier. Never had bolt stick or chopped a ball. Maybe you should look at running a shorter spring.

I shot 5 pods and 2 hoppers in 2 games last weekend, (140x5 + 170x2) so its right up there, and thats with the medium spring in my extreme.

Either way you should get alot more from your 4500 fills

[boomerfoxtrot]

I know I should get alot more from the 45 fill.. that's what the problem is..

what is your LX set up? I'm gonna try it...

#0 carrier, small springs? 0,1,2,3 shems?

[mxracer33x]

In both emags I ended up with a #1 carrier after break in. 2 or 3 shimms (depending on needs) and the Medium spring on the extreme and the short spring on the Emagnum. When fitting carriers I like to go 1 tighter than the one that fits "just right" by usual standards

[BTAutoMag]

may i offer a simple solution...

only bring in a hopper (200) and 4 pods (560) which comes to 760 balls. which means you have enough air to shoot all your balls. the MOST paint ive ever used in a game is 620 balls and this game took a good 15 min and ended in a stale mate. i mean there is accuracy in volume but how much volume do you have to have to be accurate?

[Manuel_FZR]

Originally posted by BTAutoMag
may i offer a simple solution...

only bring in a hopper (200) and 4 pods (560) which comes to 760 balls. which means you have enough air to shoot all your balls. the MOST paint ive ever used in a game is 620 balls and this game took a good 15 min and ended in a stale mate. i mean there is accuracy in volume but how much volume do you have to have to be accurate?

[ezrunner]

a simple solution?

wow, I dunno if I think that solution is that simple.

I carry 6x140pods onto the field right now and rarely dump that much.
However, I start in the back shooting on the break,then I'm
upfield in a bunker laying mad fire so my front guys can move.

If I have to drop to a defensive position, then I
have been known to unload my entire pack in a 7 minute 5man game. I don't run dry,
but I do keep the other team pressed into their bunkers while
my team is getting in their face.

Paint needs vary depending on the postion and playing style
of each player and differ from team to team.

A blanket statement of: well, it won't fit your needs, so
adjust your needs, is well, a cop-out.

That is what looses market share. If the competition can
meet the market demands, and you have a product that doesn't,
(I am not referring to mags, more economy in general),
then you need to shift your focus to satisfying markey demands.

The market is why tom did the emag,
why he did the xmag,
and why he has one of the best customer service groups in
our industry.

When people wanted higher rates of fire and a more
accurate marker, Tom answered with the 68AutoMag. I like to
think he was inspired by the actually Automag which fired
a specially made cartridge that was in essence a semiauto
44magnum.

When players wanted faster shooting mags, Tom gave us the
RetroValve.

When people needed to feed 20bps, Tom answered with the
warpfeed.

The Emag was his answer to electros....

The Xmag to the weight/cosmetics.

The slug body is his next answer to barrel woes and cosmetic
upgrades for the rest of the mag users.

Tom has been responding to market demands and I don't think
his answer would be to carry less paint. I think his answer
would be to tune boomer's mag to shoot the paint he carries.

-rob