Why I like full auto...

[halB]

Originally posted by rdb123


Have you ever been?

its quite true, airsoft bbs dont even leave a welt most of the time.

[HoppysMag]

paranoia on the insurance agencys part keeps the eyes in peoples heads...

when u use FA the winner is the one with the biggest wallet. we will play a game, me with my phantom VS u and ur RainMaker 10 balls each... is FA still a tool or a crutch?

[rdb123]

Well that depends if I have a clear angle on you. ;-)

-Ron

[MinimagRockin']

Full auto is silly. It's completely uneccessary. For one thing there is going to be alot of people that your playing with that aren't going to have that capability so it's unfair in that respect. Why would you want to use full auto when no one else on the field is using it? Also no tournaments that I know of allow it, so your not going to ever be able to use it on the highest level of play (such as pro). Plus personally I don't think it would be as fun pointing your gun at where you want the paint and then just sitting there watching the paint fly out. At least in semi your actually causing each paintball to be fired. Lastly you said you only use short bursts so why can't you just pull the trigger 3 quick times?

[petefol]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke


maybe "most" of the people you play with....

Goto any tourny and you'll see everyone with hair trigger electros (Timmy's especially) in the 12-15 range...

well im talking about just playing at a local field, there may be a few people with a fast trigger finger, but the majority of kids arent that great. and i think a better question rather then just "should F/A be allowed?" is should it be allowed in just am/pro tournys, or should it be allowed all around? playing in a tourny is alot different cause the refs are usually watching better and the level of skill is alot higher.

[Orange Crush]

Holy smokes, I cannot believe the amount of whining I have seen on this thread. I have been reading the forums for several weeks, signed up last week, and this was the thread that made me actually decide to post.

Full auto is dangerous, it promotes over shooting...wah wah wah, if you are that concerned, perhaps we should all go back to pump action guns, or maybe that's a bit too much and we should revert to bolt action nelsons. While were at it, all guns should be set for 250fps at the factory with no way to adjust the velocity, that way no one will turn it up on the field to get that extra distance. There was once a time when semi-auto's were considered dangerous and unfit for play. With the rate of fire available to most electro's nowadays, even in semi-auto, I think this point is moot. I have yet to see any player pop off one or two rounds out of his angel or his emag...its always a hail of paint, most players are easily capable of the 7-9 bps that most full autos are, its simply a matter of preference. Paintball has risks, getting shot a dozen times by a modern marker is one of them. It doesn't kill you, it just doesn't feel good. It certainly isn't anymore dangerous. Next time, you'll make a better move. If you can't deal with it, sideline yourself.

On a side note...most players, when firing semi-auto continue to engage their target until they know they score a hit, then they stop firing...the reason for the overshoot, is that with the rate of fire of modern semi-autos, by the time the firing player realizes the hit, and stops stroking the trigger, there are already 5,6,10,12 balls in flight behind the one that scored the hit. With the full auto rate of fire factually not being significantly more than a decent semi-auto, the time from realized score to trigger release is no longer than normal, and would yield the same amout of additional hits. Just some food for thought.

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Orange Crush
Holy smokes, I cannot believe the amount of whining I have seen on this thread. I have been reading the forums for several weeks, signed up last week, and this was the thread that made me actually decide to post.

Full auto is dangerous, it promotes over shooting...wah wah wah, if you are that concerned, perhaps we should all go back to pump action guns, or maybe that's a bit too much and we should revert to bolt action nelsons. While were at it, all guns should be set for 250fps at the factory with no way to adjust the velocity, that way no one will turn it up on the field to get that extra distance. There was once a time when semi-auto's were considered dangerous and unfit for play. With the rate of fire available to most electro's nowadays, even in semi-auto, I think this point is moot. I have yet to see any player pop off one or two rounds out of his angel or his emag...its always a hail of paint, most players are easily capable of the 7-9 bps that most full autos are, its simply a matter of preference. Paintball has risks, getting shot a dozen times by a modern marker is one of them. It doesn't kill you, it just doesn't feel good. It certainly isn't anymore dangerous. Next time, you'll make a better move. If you can't deal with it, sideline yourself.

When you play w/ semi you don't bleed. That's why we play with it. I've been overshot on full auto it bled. I think it was 4 shots right below my ear, 1 shot on my tank, 1 shot on my arm, 2 shots on my chest, and 1 shot on my hopper. Sorry, but a newb w/ full auto is scary...

On a side note...most players, when firing semi-auto continue to engage their target until they know they score a hit, then they stop firing...the reason for the overshoot, is that with the rate of fire of modern semi-autos, by the time the firing player realizes the hit, and stops stroking the trigger, there are already 5,6,10,12 balls in flight behind the one that scored the hit. With the full auto rate of fire factually not being significantly more than a decent semi-auto, the time from realized score to trigger release is no longer than normal, and would yield the same amout of additional hits. Just some food for thought.

True, you probably have the same amount of balls in the air, if you have a good trigger finger.

[Dayspring]

So I suppose that Tom Kaye, being one of the manufacturers that is leading the charge against full auto makes him a whiner too huh?

Originally posted by Orange Crush
Holy smokes, I cannot believe the amount of whining I have seen on this thread. I have been reading the forums for several weeks, signed up last week, and this was the thread that made me actually decide to post.

Full auto is dangerous, it promotes over shooting...wah wah wah, if you are that concerned, perhaps we should all go back to pump action guns, or maybe that's a bit too much and we should revert to bolt action nelsons. While were at it, all guns should be set for 250fps at the factory with no way to adjust the velocity, that way no one will turn it up on the field to get that extra distance. There was once a time when semi-auto's were considered dangerous and unfit for play. With the rate of fire available to most electro's nowadays, even in semi-auto, I think this point is moot. I have yet to see any player pop off one or two rounds out of his angel or his emag...its always a hail of paint, most players are easily capable of the 7-9 bps that most full autos are, its simply a matter of preference. Paintball has risks, getting shot a dozen times by a modern marker is one of them. It doesn't kill you, it just doesn't feel good. It certainly isn't anymore dangerous. Next time, you'll make a better move. If you can't deal with it, sideline yourself.

On a side note...most players, when firing semi-auto continue to engage their target until they know they score a hit, then they stop firing...the reason for the overshoot, is that with the rate of fire of modern semi-autos, by the time the firing player realizes the hit, and stops stroking the trigger, there are already 5,6,10,12 balls in flight behind the one that scored the hit. With the full auto rate of fire factually not being significantly more than a decent semi-auto, the time from realized score to trigger release is no longer than normal, and would yield the same amout of additional hits. Just some food for thought.

[raehl]

Full Auto must be banned.

All manufacture of full auto markers and boards should be stopped, and it's getting there, and that is a VERY GOOD THING.


I'm not going to get into the reasoning for it here because this is a public forum, but I will say that it has nothing to do with paintball games or paintball safety. A little thinking and most of you can probably figure out why with the hint above.


- Chris

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Orange Crush
...With the rate of fire available to most electro's nowadays, even in semi-auto, I think this point is moot. I have yet to see any player pop off one or two rounds out of his angel or his emag...its always a hail of paint, most players are easily capable of the 7-9 bps that most full autos are, its simply a matter of preference...

Orange Crush is correct!

Today's highly skilled tourny players + Today's super electro semi's = full auto... don't kid yourself! It's true.

If today's super fast electro's are considered legalfor tourny play, then all forms of shooting should be legal (i.e. full-auto, RT sweet spotting).

If you're really concerned about safety (bleeding), then ALL guns should be capped at something like 5 bps and 250 fps.

I personally think hopper ball is the way to go. It WILL control how much paint you shoot.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Orange Crush
There was once a time when semi-auto's were considered dangerous and unfit for play.

Really? I can't remember hearing anyone ever saying that and I started playing around 1986 and have played ever since. I NEVER heard anyone say that semi-autos were dangerous. Never.

Originally posted by Orange Crush
With the rate of fire available to most electro's nowadays, even in semi-auto, I think this point is moot.

I don't since many semi-auto paintball markers are capable of firing MUCH faster in full-auto than ANYONE can in semi-auto.

Originally posted by Orange Crush
the reason for the overshoot, is that with the rate of fire of modern semi-autos, by the time the firing player realizes the hit, and stops stroking the trigger, there are already 5,6,10,12 balls in flight behind the one that scored the hit.

Let's see, the max velocity for a paintball is pretty much 300 fps. If your rate of fire is 10 bps that puts 30 feet between paintballs. To have 5 paintballs in the air at the same time your target must be 150 feet away. To have 12 paintballs in the air at the same time your target must be 360 feet away. At 150 feet while firing at a rate of 10 bps you might be able to put all your rounds on a target the size of a person. Maybe.

I'm not talking about someone shooting for a second after you are hit. I not even talking about them shooting after they know they hit you. I'm talking about them continuing to shoot for several seconds after I have raise my free hand and marker! Sorry, they overshoot because they don't care if they do. They overshoot because they got taken out (over shooting after they are eliminated) because their fragile ego was damaged.

BTW, rate of fire is NO excuse for overshooting. If you can't control it, then you have NO business using it. Paintball is not a war. It is a GAME.

BTW, I'm all for full-auto, but ONLY if it were capped at 5 bps.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by hitech
...they overshoot because they don't care if they do. They overshoot because they got taken out (over shooting after they are eliminated) because their fragile ego was damaged...

In this case, it doesn't matter if the guns were FULL-AUTO or ELECTRO SEMI, that jerk would still light you up 10-15 bps regardless!

This is a problem with the user and not the gun...

Limited paint tourny's, like the recent Las Vegas ones, are a great way to control the excessive "spray & pray" styles so prevalent in today's game. "Spray and Pray" styles retard paintball tactical skillz and promote accidental overshooting.

I believe the nature of limited paint tourny's would allow the use of full-auto. The players would be forced to control their shoots or suffer the consequences of running out of paint. (controlled bursts as opposed to spray & pray)

[Orange Crush]

Originally posted by FooTemps
When you play w/ semi you don't bleed. That's why we play with it. I've been overshot on full auto it bled. I think it was 4 shots right below my ear, 1 shot on my tank, 1 shot on my arm, 2 shots on my chest, and 1 shot on my hopper. Sorry, but a newb w/ full auto is scary...

Honestly, the worst injury I ever got playing paintball was from a pump gun, also hit me right in the neck. (its a tender spot) The guy stuck his gun around the corner of a bunker, blind firing, put the barrel right against my neck and fired. I bled like crazy, had a black bruise from my jaw to my shoulder blade. Maybe since some people that play are idiots we should just ban paintball altogether.

Originally posted by FooTemps
True, you probably have the same amount of balls in the air, if you have a good trigger finger.

Then why are you concerned with FA?

Originally posted by Dayspring
So I suppose that Tom Kaye, being one of the manufacturers that is leading the charge against full auto makes him a whiner too huh?

Yes, yes it does. Just because you are an active and well known figure doesn't make you right.

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
Today's highly skilled tourny players + Today's super electro semi's = full auto... don't kid yourself! It's true.

Thanks Jack & Coke, but I seriously doubt it takes a tourney level player to equal the fire power of a full auto.

Originally posted by hitech
Really? I can't remember hearing anyone ever saying that and I started playing around 1986 and have played ever since. I NEVER heard anyone say that semi-autos were dangerous. Never.

Sorry you didn't get out much. I've been playing since 88 as well, and I remember it being a big deal....and it did change the way paintball was played, you didn't see speedball fields prior to the semi.

Originally posted by hitechI don't since many semi-auto paintball markers are capable of firing MUCH faster in full-auto than ANYONE can in semi-auto.

I disagree, other than maybe warp feed powered guns, almost all guns are limited by the gravity feed not the cyclic rate of the gun, and most decent players with a semi can run the ball drop dry. All those crazy numbers you see about 26bps are all done in a lab environment, with a force feed of some sort....its not possible for a player to reach those numbers...besides, if that's all you are worried about, get a chrony that measures bps and limit full autos to 10bps.

Originally posted by hitech
Let's see, the max velocity for a paintball is pretty much 300 fps. If your rate of fire is 10 bps that puts 30 feet between paintballs. To have 5 paintballs in the air at the same time your target must be 150 feet away. To have 12 paintballs in the air at the same time your target must be 360 feet away. At 150 feet while firing at a rate of 10 bps you might be able to put all your rounds on a target the size of a person. Maybe.

Okay, lets play semantics.... the point is the same, overshooting is controlled by the firer not the ROF...as I believe you even said yourself...

BTW, rate of fire is NO excuse for overshooting. If you can't control it, then you have NO business using it. Paintball is not a war. It is a GAME.

I couldn't agree more.

Ever since the advent of the semi auto, and speedball style feilds I watched paintball evolve from a game of stealth and patience to a game of high action, high aggresion and high quantity of paint slinging...he who slings more paint wins. If I can't shoot you through the bush, I will demolish the bush with a case of paint so I can get you.

I've only played with a full auto once, and yet I have sustained a fair amount of injuries and overshoots...so I seriously doubt banning them is gonna bring my stats down.

Originally posted by hitech
BTW, I'm all for full-auto, but ONLY if it were capped at 5 bps.

How bout we measure the fastes firing semi auto person on the field, and let the full auto's cap be equal to their rate of fire? Seems fair to me.

[Evil Bob]

I agree 100%, it's the guy/gal pulling the trigger that is the source of the problem, not the marker itself. It doesn't help at all that the markers today are capable of firing at faster rates then the average player can produce manually. The result is anyone can pick up an FA marker and spray with the best of them regardless of skill level. The problem is when to stop spraying... a seasoned player will know when to stop, a novice won't, that's where the problem lies is in the experience level.

So what do we do? Eductate and then leave it up to the individual to make the right choice or do we remove the choice all together and eliminate the potential for catastrophe before it happens?

Hopper Ball is a great way to limit spray and pray, forced paint conservation. I have played in serveral hopper ball games, really brings it back down to the fun tactical/skill level again.

-Evil Bob

[battlegroup]

How many inexperienced players have you seen hide behind a bunker and fire blind with semi? I have seen too many do it. Now put a F/A in their hands. Not a good idea. They can't see where the balls are going and fire erratically. For a field that doesn't have tall nets, this will lead to people shooting into parking lots, etc. I agree that it is easier on the finger, but If your finger gets tired, then you are shooting too much. There is no reason for F/A. with the incredibly shot/light trigger pulls these days you can get 9-13 bps semi-auto and more controlled.