Why I like full auto...

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Orange Crush
...Ever since the advent of the semi auto, and speedball style feilds I watched paintball evolve from a game of stealth and patience to a game of high action, high aggresion and high quantity of paint slinging...he who slings more paint wins. If I can't shoot you through the bush, I will demolish the bush with a case of paint so I can get you.
...

Another great quote!

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by battlegroup
...with the incredibly shot/light trigger pulls these days you can get 9-13 bps semi-auto and more controlled...

more controlled???

How???

I totally disagree.

Shoot 9-13 bps via FULL-AUTO => pull once, let go when you want to stop.

Shoot 9-13 bps via hair trigger electro semi => spastically twitch your wrist or run your fingers until you acheive that comfort rythm.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
more controlled???

How???

Trip and fall. Tightly grip the marker in the process and pull the trigger.

Semi-auto = 1 shot
Full-auto = many, many shots

Full-auto is less controlled. An accident results in many, many shots. Some kid bunkering you on full-auto equals many, many extra shots. Semi-auto is maybe 5 shots. Maybe that many.

[Jack & Coke]

Regarding diving and bunkering moves: you are correct.

Regarding regular fire fights: there's no difference.

Here's the solution:

We should stick paintballs on the ends of sticks and bash each other...

[hitech]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
Trust me you DON'T want full auto. I've gotten myself into Full Auto Games before with the E-magnum and I've walked off the field bloody.

This is still the bottom line. To me, this is proof that full-auto is dangerous. You disagree? If so, why?

BTW, I said full-auto capped at 5 bps because that seems to me to be a reasonable compromise between safety and usability. However, even at that it may be too much. An accident will still involve multiple rounds. But at least the kids bunkering you at full-auto won't be so bad.

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
Regarding diving and bunkering moves: you are correct.

Hence the safety concerns. That is where most of the opposition comes from.

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
Regarding regular fire fights: there's no difference.

That would depend on the ROF cap. Anything over 8-10 would be an advantage. I doubt you can find anyone that can exceed 10 bps for an entire hopper. Certainly MOST people could not.

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
We should stick paintballs on the ends of sticks and bash each other...

Why? Full-auto is dangerous. Is semi-auto? Maybe it is at a certain ROF, but I'm all for a ROF cap. BTW, did you see the video of Tom shooting "Man Cow" at 20 bps full-auto? It was a sobering video.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by hitech
...I said full-auto capped at 5 bps because that seems to me to be a reasonable compromise between safety and usability...

I like this idea...

[MinimagRockin']

Will allowing full auto make paintball more enjoyable? No way. It's fun to pull the trigger a bunch of times. I don't have an FA gun but even if I did I wouldn't use FA whether they allowed it or not.

[Dern]

The whole "Full Auto can/will make you bleed thing" is a bit hyped- Semi auto can do it JUST AS EASILY. The speed and angle of the impact with your skin will determine whether your skin will tear and bleed more than repeated shots. If we can't accept some risks in paintball, why do we bother playing? Every time you play you risk getting shot which means you could: Lose an eye/sight, start bleeding somewhere, lose your hearing, break a bone in your body from falling or something, etc.
However, I can see why Full Auto is dangerous, especially in the hands of a player with an itchy trigger finger or a leaden trigger finger. Just the fact that there will PROBABLY (but not absolutely) be more paint flying makes the risk of gettting hurt higher, but how much more so? I'd say most of those shots are for cover fire or are just plain missing the target.
Being able to shoot fast has its merits, but I think that they don't benefit you so much as taking more time to AIM or get in a good position. Pump players can and do get just as many players out as people with all other guns, whether they be semi or full auto. So why is Full Auto even necessary? I don't think its necessary to have in a gun. Firing modes like 3 or 6 ball shots are cool, thats what I'd normally fire off with a semi.
In the end, I don't really care whether someone has full auto or not. To me, it just means I take that guy out first or as fast as I can so that his potential F/A threat is gone. I care more about what the person behind the gun is thinking/doing than about his/her gun. If fields don't want to have Full Auto guns on their fields for whatever reason, just turn your marker to semi auto and use the 1mm trigger pull that most full auto-abled guns have.

No need to lash at each other... It is supposed to be a fun game after all.

[blnk162]

Re: Why I like full auto...

Originally posted by Trench_Riader
Ok first off let me say I love my model 1451 Rainmaker with a retrofitted select fire board.

I'm also quite fortunate in that two of the three feilds I play at have not over-reacted to supposed safety concerns and still allow full auto fire.

many people (ironicly its often the people who defend full autos) make the statement that a full auto has no advantage over a electo gun with a light trigger. This is clearly nonsense. Full auto fire with a real firearm tends to be less accurate than fast semi-auto fire due to felt recoil. Felt recoil is almost non-existant in most paintball guns. On the the other hand, repeated trigger pulls, even with the lightest of electro triggers, tends to pull the weapon off it's aim. The net effect is that paintball guns behave the exact opposite of how a real firearm on full auto would: full auto is actually more acurate for sustained fire.

In addition, full auto fire is far easier to sustain while on the move than repeated semi-auto trigger pulls. Try to keep up steady area fire at a fast jog or greater if you don't believe me.

Finally, there is the psycological effect. For many players, newer ones more so than experienced ones, incoming full auto fire is intimidating. A sustained full auto burst is far more likely to suppress (or "tuck" for you folks who prefer PC terms to military ones) than a series of unsteady semi-auto shots. This is even more the case when the gun in question is extremely loud...like my beloved Rainmaker.

Granted, a good electro trigger can produce rates of fire a bit higher than most full auto guns. However, most players cannot sustain that rate of fire for any length of time and as noted above accuracy suffers with repeated trigger pulls.

Most of those who are opposed to full auto fire raise the spectre of "over-shooting". This is a valid point. However is one is careful and has the right training, this issue is becomes invalid. For example, I'm ex-military and am experienced in full auto fire. I also own three legal licensed full auto firearms. So as you might expect, I fire in short bursts rather than ripping the whole hopper and do other things that make my full auto both more effective and safer than someone less trained would. But it's not that hard of a skill to learn.

Finally I feel that most fields that ban full auto fire are doing so as a knee-jerk reaction to hysterical claims. I'm all for safety, but safety paranoia is a bad thing. Perhaps a more apropriate aproach would be to restrict full auto fire to mature players who have demonstrated proper skill and fire control?

Am I off base here? What do you think?

Discuss...

"Trench Raider"
yes I use my Minimag on the field that doesn't permit full autos...

RMOG AO BEOG

n00b

[battlegroup]

quote:
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Originally posted by battlegroup
...with the incredibly shot/light trigger pulls these days you can get 9-13 bps semi-auto and more controlled...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Jack & Coke


more controlled???

How???

Because you have to conciously pull the trigger each time. you know how much you want to shoot. With F/A pull once and let 10 balls go. with semi you have to kepp pulling to get 10 balls.

I totally disagree.

Shoot 9-13 bps via FULL-AUTO => pull once, let go when you want to stop.

Shoot 9-13 bps via hair trigger electro semi => spastically twitch your wrist or run your fingers until you acheive that comfort rythm.

PLUS:

Trip and fall. Tightly grip the marker in the process and pull the trigger.

[Evil Bob]

Has anyone done any testing with full auto on a goggle lens to see if there are any issues with repeated inpacts in a small area? I've seen lenses from multiple manufacturers develope visible flaws after a single impact from close range, I'm curious as to what would happen to these lenses from repeated impacts in the same location.

We already know what repeated impacts on the human body will do, how about the gear we trust to protect our eyes?

-Evil Bob

[Jack & Coke]

"repeated impacts in the same location" is a function of ROF and not operation (i.e. Full-auto vs. Semi).

10 bps via full-auto is the same as 10 bps via semi. Your mask lens example will still see 10 balls on impact for 1 second.

Regarding saftey issues of overshooting, most seem to confuse FULL-AUTO with high ROF. You want less impacts in a specific area, lower the ROF. This can easily be done via electro style full-autos.

The best argument against full-auto (which I agree with) has been about the ability to shoot 1 shot if they wanted to (i.e. bunkering moves). Lower the ROF and it solves this problem.

Then again... when someone bunkers another player, how many shots do they reel off? I've seen clips of pros bunkering other pros with 3-5 point-blank shots... using their "safer" semi's.

[Orange Crush]

Originally posted by hitech

This is still the bottom line. To me, this is proof that full-auto is dangerous. You disagree? If so, why?

I disagree. And why?! Because, as I have stated before, I have left the playing field injured and bleeding without being shot by a full auto.

Originally posted by MinimagRockin'
Will allowing full auto make paintball more enjoyable? No way. It's fun to pull the trigger a bunch of times. I don't have an FA gun but even if I did I wouldn't use FA whether they allowed it or not.

Again, this is a matter of opinion, I think its fun to pull the pump back on a gun a bunch of times to cock it.

Originally posted by hitech
Why? Full-auto is dangerous. Is semi-auto? Maybe it is at a certain ROF, but I'm all for a ROF cap

I think this is a good idea, but how do you propose that we cap the rate of fire on semi-autos? And how do you think the tourney level player that sprays and prays is gonna feel about that?

In fact...probably the best way to do this would be to require all guns to be electro, set to full auto with a cap of say 5bps...that way everyone is on level ground, no skilled semi players can exceed the ROF limit...

[Evil Bob]

Jack and Coke...

I know full well that rate of fire dictates how many rounds will be in the air as well as the person pulling the trigger. Go re-read my question again.

What I asked was has anyone tested repeated impacts on a lens in the same location to see what happens to the lens? Do they crack? Do they develope artifacts? Does the impact of the balls hitting cause the players mask to come off?

These are valid concerns, some people are obviously unconcerned with your welfare when they overshoot you.

-Evil Bob

[hitech]

Originally posted by Orange Crush
I disagree. And why?! Because, as I have stated before, I have left the playing field injured and bleeding without being shot by a full auto.

I think you are missing the point. I'm sure Butterfingers has played in many semi-auto games. Full-auto is different. Have you seen what full-auto at 20 bps will do? Have you seen the video of Tom shooting "Man Cow"?

Originally posted by Orange Crush
In fact...probably the best way to do this would be to require all guns to be electro, set to full auto with a cap of say 5bps...that way everyone is on level ground, no skilled semi players can exceed the ROF limit...

If you ignore the problem of what to do with all the existing mechanical markers, I think that is a great idea. Then again, I have thought that would be a good idea for some time now.