Accuracy Bench Test Results: GZ Timmy vs. M98RT vs. Automag Retro (pics)

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Evil Bob
    Evil Overlord
    • Jul 2001
    • 1217

    #31
    You're on the right path, you just need to refine the test a bit more before you have it right on.

    The test I did with my angels (both of them before I sold them off) was for shootdown on long strings of paint (which everyone shoots in tournies, especially the lard butts playing on the back end).

    The angel fans were all claiming there was no shootdown in the low pressure nature of the angel, they claimed Tom and that Mag owners were making it all up despite Tom's own test results. I found out through lots of tourny experience with a red dot sight mounted on the angel, I found I was raising my point of aim gradually the faster and longer I fired it to compensate for shootdown. I first noticed it when I was longballing a back player. When I first short 3 round strings, I only needed to put the red dot on the player's head to hit near his waist. When I let the angel rock I had to put the dot over the player's head to hit the same location. This is what led into the below test to satisfy my curiousity. The Angel LCD at the time simply couldn't keep up with the demands I was placing on it. The shootdown was quite real, but since very few angel owners use sights, they didn't readily notice it.

    I setup a board (2" x 12" x 5') in the backyard (12 acres of woods to use) against a large oak tree 90' (30 yards) away. I used 10" heavy paper plates that I stapled to the top of the board for the target medium.

    The markers (emag and angel LCD) were then setup in a benchrest I use for sighting in my real firearms (both pistols and rifles) on a carpenture's portable work bench that made a very solid testing platform. Both markers were fired at the software limits of 6BPS, 10 BPS, 13 BPS, and then 16 BPS. The emag had a warp feed mounted on it with a modded 12v revy, the same revy was also used on the angel. 100 rounds (1 pod) were loaded into the hopper and fired.

    To fire for the test, I used a battery powered dremel tool with a wooden spool with a wooden peg mounted off center in the end, I'd juice the dremel up and bring the rapidly rotating peg carefully into contact with the trigger so that the marker would fire as fast as the software limits would allow.

    6BPS: Emag hit the paper plate repeatedly, no visible shootdown. Angel also hit the plate consistantly.

    10BPS: Emag hit the paper plate repeatedly, no visible shootdown. Angel hit the paper plate with the first 5 shots then the shots started to drop a bit (visible shoot down) resulting in an oval shot pattern and hitting below the plate.

    13BPS (NPPL standard): Emag hit the paper plate repeatedly, no visible shootdown. Angel had a larger of an oval pattern this time and hit further below the paper plate, more visible shootdown.

    16BPS: 12v revy had a hard time keeping up, so shot strings were kept intentionally low, I didn't want to chop paint but ended up doing so in the angel several times, which resulted in some crazy curve balls that missed the board completely. The Emag and warp didn't chop paint, and had no problems hitting the plate repeatedly. I threw out the angel results as it couldn't keep up without chopping paint.

    If I still had my Angels, I'd love to repeat this test as we now have a loaders that are more then capable of keeping up with 16bps.

    -Evil Bob

    Comment

    • Jack & Coke
      TUNAMAX No. 1
      • Jul 2002
      • 2644

      #32
      Awesome! Sounds like a good test.... no pics??? Shame on you!

      Comment

      • Evil Bob
        Evil Overlord
        • Jul 2001
        • 1217

        #33
        Yeah, no picts to speak of... the dilemma was "buy an Emag from AGDE or buy a digital camera for the wife" (which would have cost more!!!)... the wife has yet to forgive me for that "lack of proper judgement" on my part, this was also almost 2 years ago

        -Evil Bob

        Comment

        • mykroft
          Registered User
          • Jan 2001
          • 2010

          #34
          Evil Bob: I'm assuming you were using an LED Angel then? I've found the LCD to be noticably more consistant than the LED, with no visible shootdown at 11 bps. I suspect this is just due to some tweaking of the LPR and valve.
          2k2 VF Cocker, STO/Eclipse Blade, Old-Style 14" Boomstick,
          68AutoMag Classic Feed CF11023, Ring trigger.

          Comment

          • halB
            Registered User
            • Sep 2002
            • 953

            #35
            statistically, every gun shot the same.

            Comment

            • Evil Bob
              Evil Overlord
              • Jul 2001
              • 1217

              #36
              I had owned 2 LED's for well over a year before I bought my first LCD, which was about 2 months before I did the shootdown test. I had just picked up a second as a backup when I ran the test.

              The problem is not really apparent when you're just eye balling where the paintballs drop (like 99% of the players out there do) and adjusting fire from there. It was really noticiable when you mount a fixed sight such as a red dot sight that provides you with a visual reference point. At the same known distance when hammering on the trigger I would have to raise the point of aim higher then when I was shooting short strings/double tapping/bursting or single shoting. Which of course led to heated debates on here and other boards regarding shootdown. Tom presented his info from testing (he owns several angels, loves them) and I did my own testing just for curiosity sake. I wanted to know how the shoot down affected the trajectory so I could use that info appropriately in game. The team I played required it's members to shoot angels. I bought the Emag from AGDE because I have always loved the hardcore stainless steel construction of the Mag's. The type of marker I'd let my kids play with and not worry about beating up.

              -Evil Bob

              Comment

              • Butterfingers
                PhD in Automagology
                • Jan 2001
                • 2263

                #37
                Very Very Nice UP in the name of science!

                I approve!
                Did you hear about the new european weapons contracts? France is going to make the wooden sticks Spain making the little white flags

                Comment

                • Jack & Coke
                  TUNAMAX No. 1
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 2644

                  #38
                  For some odd reason, it felt really good tightening the vise up and making sure the barrel was rock solid in it's position. I was affraid I would damage the freak front, so I was very careful. Knowing that the barrel is locked in, it was fun seeing where all the shots actually landed.

                  Of course, there are many factors which could influence the ball's trajectory. The goal was to focus on the guns themselves and not the barrel/paint.

                  Next time, I will try harder to have the guns shooting the same velocity. I tried to adjust the velocities this time, but as you know, it takes time and usuage for regulator springs to settle in each time you make adjustments. It would probably be best if I fired each gun a few hundered times after each reg adjustment and before chronoing/testing.

                  Now and I need another $60 for a case of All-Stars! All in the name of science and the high standards that is AO...

                  Comment

                  • BarryTolar
                    Registered User
                    • Nov 2001
                    • 131

                    #39
                    Might want to no lock the vise to the barrel at all.

                    Try attaching it to the grip frame if possible.

                    Barry

                    Comment

                    • rx2
                      DBAF
                      • Mar 2002
                      • 496

                      #40
                      Unfortunately, no amount of testing is going to completely dispell any myths, as new myths and lines of reasoning will be created in order to skirt around science. However, any independant endeavour into scientific method is commendable.

                      BUT, I must say, it seems as though it would be an odd situation to have a grown man painting up his poor parents' back yard with bright green paint.
                      (OF course, you aren't alone!)
                      "My Jell-O is dying in the audience..."
                      Merrill Howard Kalin

                      Comment

                      • Havoc_online
                        www.havoc-online.com
                        • Feb 2002
                        • 2851

                        #41
                        Nice Jack! Your right though, you DO need a longer testing range and a better paint/barrel. These tests are always fun.
                        www.havoc-online.com <--- Your AGD Lifeline

                        Products & Services

                        Comment

                        • Jack & Coke
                          TUNAMAX No. 1
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 2644

                          #42
                          thx Havoc,

                          Which "better" barrel/paint do you recommend?

                          What distance do you guys think I should test at? 75' 100'?

                          During play, at what distances do you reckon most eliminations occur at?

                          Comment

                          • Havoc_online
                            www.havoc-online.com
                            • Feb 2002
                            • 2851

                            #43
                            O' My bad, I forgot you used freaks, I didnt see what paint you used but my first guess when I saw +/-10+ on the markers was that maybe the paint wasnt matched, till I read about the freak and about not oil'ing the RT(shame on you ). Even, on the Timmy, the consistency wasnt too hot- is that normal for +/-10(or so)? I would hope that any high end properly tuned marker could do +/-2 at least.

                            (you should try and do the test at 50ft,100ft,150ft)
                            www.havoc-online.com <--- Your AGD Lifeline

                            Products & Services

                            Comment

                            • AGD
                              The man from AGD

                              • Oct 2000
                              • 5916

                              #44
                              Nice job you guys! Always good to have test data.

                              AGD
                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              • Brak
                                POOP
                                • Sep 2002
                                • 1996

                                #45
                                what about the air systems!?CONSISTENCY IS ACCURACY!!
                                SIG RULES SUCK REAL BAD AND THEYRE STUPID AND DUMB AND THEY STINK AND ARE STUPID AND I HATE THEM AND THEY SUCK REAL BAD

                                Comment

                                Working...