Tom Kaye Cocker?

[cphilip]

First thing we gonna do is weigh all the parts it takes to make a cocker operate and fire a ball and weigh the X valve cause thats all it takes to make a mag operate and fire a ball....

[Load SM5]

But if you do that, he'll have to take all the pneumatics and crap off. That'll take days. And he'll never get it back on right again.

[ezrunner]

parts list

Ok,
Xvalve has to weigh in against:
Bolt, hammer, spring, spring stop/ivg, cocking rod, valve,
valve spring, pull pin, hpr, lpr, ram, pump
arm rod, and actuating rod.

Body against body, frontblock and back block.

Grip against Raceframe, solenoid.

That fair?

I think there will be goods and bads and that we will see where
the mag needs to loose weight to satisfy the featherweight crowd.

I personally don't carry any more weight than I need to
onto the field to do the job. This should be cool :-)


-rob

[ezrunner]

oh and load!

/me slaps load_sm5 around a bit w/ a large sea bass.

:-)

[Conqueror]

1) A cocker with a Race frame is no less "an electro" than the Emag. Both are mechanical guns with a solenoid to trip the sear. Anyone who says otherwise is incorrect.

2) Why make a cocker body out of stainless? The only reason the mag was made of stainless was for "durability." Now that it's obvious Aluminum can hold up almost as well, AGD has started making AL bodies. WGP's been doing that for 10 years now. Cockers function fine with the aluminum body milled down to almost nothing - look at the Twister bodies from Boston Paintball! Making it of stainless steel would be heavier, not lighter.

3) The parts that are "necesseary" to fire a paintball from either the X-mag or the cocker are both quite light, so it's a pointless comparison. The cocker only "needs" the bolt, the hammer, the valve, and two springs. Hammers are sub-30 grams, bolts are another 30 or so in Delrin, springs are negligible (1-2g) and the valve is maybe 15g. So, we're talking 3 ounces or so for those components. Anyone wanna try telling me the X-valve weighs 3 ounces?

4) The lightest cocker bodies are down in the 6oz range, and maybe even a shade below that. The ULE mags are over 4 ounces, so we're not talking much difference here.

I don't mean to sound anti-mag, because I'm not. I'm a die-hard cocker fan, but I am certainly not against mags. I find it sad that virtually every thread on AO that has the word "cocker" in the title ends up becoming an argument about which gun is better. Why can't we just live and let live? This debate has been raging for over a decade now, and it boggles my mind that people STILL haven't figured out that it's all personal preference. Both guns shoot the same speed and the same distance. Both can be had in electro or mechanical versions. Both can be made equally light (to within a few ounces) or equally heavy. The only real difference is the way the trigger feels, and that is something that can never be taken out of the subjective realm.

Can't we just agree that some people like cockers, and some people like mags, and leave it at that?

CQ

[Muzikman]

Hmm..a Merlin with a RACE frame...I almost did the same thing. I decided against the Merlin body though since the vert adapter is built into the front block....and I don't need no stink'n front block

[ezrunner]

debate lol

hey, I'm not saying either is better in general.

There are proponents of each for good reason.

I just thought it'd be cool to have a stainless minimal body.

-rob

[SpongeBobSquarePants]

Originally posted by Conqueror


Why can't we just live and let live?

I think you were looking for live and let die there bro. But hell what do I know I am AO's offical freaking idiot. I also agree with what was said by you this is just a battle of personal preference. I think AGD will become the domiante force of the new comer market. I mean I love cockers but they are just mags. Me I'm a Angel guy, but right now the real electros are the dominate force. Now if AGD came out with one of those it would be great. I know there is the x/emag but its not a real electro it's still mechnical. But thats just what I think.

[WARPED1]

Cocker=80 moving parts
Mags=like what 6-8?
Hmmmmmmmmmm.........

[strongboy2005]

Well the original idea of an autococker was to take the most accurate gun which was the WGP Sniper. They took it, put on pnuematics to make it semi-auto, so you'd have the accuracy of a pump and the speed of a semi auto. They were not "designed" to have that many moving parts, it just ended up that way.

[ezrunner]

well

I think we actually have Glenn Palmer to thank for the cocker.

Apparently Mr.Orr liked Glenn's work and decided he could mass
produce the conversion on a Sniper platform. There is an
explanation of what transpired floating around on the net.

I actually asked Mr. Palmer about it and he said the same
more or less. Withoug Palmer, there prolly wouldn't be a cocker,
and without Budd Orr we wouldn't have the autococker because Glenn
is a custom airsmith, not a mass merchant.

-rob

[WARPED1]

Jeff Orr stole the only working proto Glenn had,but thats only heresay.

[ezrunner]

dunno

I don't know, but I did ask Glenn about it when I ordered
some parts for some regs. He is an awesome guy.

He explained what happened, and I think there was some purchasing
of Palmer products for the Orr's to examine, but he didn't mention
any outright theft.

I forgot to mention Larry Alexander the maker of the
Merlin!

That is an awesome setup.

-rob

[Muzikman]

Well, the story running around is that someone dug through tens of thousands of dollars in new gear just to get to Camille. Now, for those of you who have never seen Camille, it's not pretty, it's not something what would be worth any money cause you would never be able to sell it, hell, you wouldn't even be able to show it to any one. So, the reason for the ugly rumors is for just that reason.

For all who have never seen a pic of the long lost Camille

http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/images/guns/Camille-21.jpg

If you do happen to ever see it, give Glenn a call.

BTW: yes, Glenn and Craig are great guys.

[hitech]

I still can't believe that someone stole Camille. I remember when Glenn first brought it out to the field...

Why would anyone steal it?