Differences between ReTro valve and X-valve Design

[Smokee_2_7]

I just noticed this today as I was working on a teamate's x-valve. The on/off top area has 2 o-rings in it- - very similar to the design in the A.I.R. valve (a small oring around the on/off pin, with a larger one around THAT o-ring). The RT and ReTrovalvs only have one oring in this same area. I was wondering why this change was made? I thought that the x-valve was basiclly a ReTro valve made form aluminum?


It really confused me (being used to working on retrovalves) to look in there and see the ole' 2-oring design like I had in my old AIR valves.



Carl

[magman007]

shouldnt be a difference, that may be like the quad o-ring setup. It seems to work better, so they do it, is it a quad down there?

[Smokee_2_7]

No, there's no quad o-ring in there. What it looked like to me was that the whole peice was milled differently. On my retrovalves, the on/off top o-ring actually sits into a small milled space. This space is not there in the x-valve. I took out the on/offs from both valves, side by side to compare- - they are DEFINITLY different. Also, i tried re-assembling the x-vavle with only the smaller o-ring installed, like in the retrovalve. INSTANT uncontrolled full-auto. It only works right with both o-rings installed.


Tom, care to comment on this?


Carl

[Schnitzel]

this is to allow for more variability, specifically for those that want to drop their xvalve into their emag, like me.

there are 2 on/offs for the emag:

.712" w/ brass top and double o-ring top.
.725" w/ aluminum top and single o-ring top.

the newer emags come with the quad o-ring, and tom stated that it was implemented to solve a specific problem, basically that the manufacturing process of regular orings leaves a seam right where the on/off pin contacts the oring.

so all older single o-ring emag on/offs are being replaced with quads to get them off the market.


this extra o-ring you're talking about is supposed to be replaced with the quad oring if it is to be dropped into an emag.

[Smokee_2_7]

Schnitzel,

I see where you are coming from. However, Now im wondering why the Retro valves have the single o-ring design exclusively?

Additionally, why is this area of the valve milled differently? I would think that the valves would be milled the same way, with the only differences being on/off pin legnth, on/off top construction, and o-ring organization. I have already sold my emag, so I don't have that valve available for comparison.


Carl

[mxracer33x]

Older Retros and Emag valves had this design. It has been discussed before in the tech forum. I cant remeber the exact reason for going back to 2 o-rings. It seemed to me that the single ring design would be better, due to less variablility in o-ring sizes. If you want to know more you might try searching in the tech forum.

[Smokee_2_7]

ok, that makes sense. Unfortunately, I already thought about searching in the tech forum. The problem is finding a keyword to use- - - RT, Retro valve X-valve, ect - - - that brings up alot of results.



Thanks for the info,

Carl

[AGD]

The double orings are more compliant and forgiving on the orings. They also allow us to use the same valve in the emag, xmag and xvalve because e-guns take quad orings and mechanicals don't.

AGD

[Smokee_2_7]

Thank you Tom,

Thats exactly what wanted to know.

Thanks again for clearing that up!


Carl

[cgrieves]

Sorry to dredge up an old thread but I have an Emag Valve in a classic (mechanical) mag and my valve had a double O ring setup with an inner quad ring and .750 pin but it wouldn't fire. I changed to dual round O-rings and the gun fires, albeit with a stiff trigger pull.... what's my best option? Shorten my on/off pin and use the quad setup, or replace the whole on/off assembly and use a dual oring setup? Or try a single round/quad o-ring on it's own at the on/off top?

Cheers,
Corin.

[Smokee_2_7]

If you are using that valve in a classic, mechanical mag, i would suggest just going with the double -oring setup.

If i remember correctly, the quad-oring and on-off lenght of .750 has to do with the electronic stuff on the emag- - it's got to be set up like that for e-mode to have a really short trigger pull *or somthing like that*

since you're not using in on an electronic marker now, I would just go with what works.


carl

[cgrieves]

OK thanks, any ideas on the stiff trigger pull? Or is it just a case of improving as the rings wear in (the pull feels much stiffer than a standard .68 automag trigger)

[Smokee_2_7]

I would sugesst that you might have to go with a significantly shorter on/off pin. check the tolorance infor in the tech thread, and find out where its' supposed to be for a classic mag. If the emag pin is waay longer, you might try ordering a shorter one, and putting that in there.


Carl

[cgrieves]

Thanks, one thing I may try is a single on/off top oring... the exploded Retro Valve diagram on the AGD site only shows a single 'ring on the pin head.

I'll try it and post results.....

[Gunga]

Originally posted by cgrieves
Thanks, one thing I may try is a single on/off top oring... the exploded Retro Valve diagram on the AGD site only shows a single 'ring on the pin head.

I'll try it and post results.....

I predict a massive leak. There's 2 orings in there for a reason.