one piece better than two piece?

[cphilip]

I thought this was going to be about Bathing Suits!

And on that note...a one peice Bikini is better than a two Peice Bikini... And better yet a Camoflage Bikini!!!!

[shartley]

Originally posted by cphilip
I thought this was going to be about Bathing Suits!

And on that note...a one peice Bikini is better than a two Peice Bikini... And better yet a Camoflage Bikini!!!!

T-shirt and bikini bottoms. Nuff said.

[FeelTheRT]

Originally posted by joeyjoe367
CP's have about 8" of unported barrel length (perfect a la AGD) making them pretty efficient.

mine has 10" of un-portedness

[cphilip]

Originally posted by FeelTheRT


mine has 10" of un-portedness

Heh! You wish!!!

[MarkM]

Originally posted by AutomagBoy
sooo, whats more accurate one piece or two? This should be moved to deep blue.

This isn't the debate, if one barrel is more efficient than another the net result "should" be a more accurate barrel. That is to say that should barrel A be a very friction free barrel then the paintball will exit the barrel at its optimium speed ball after ball, should barrel B be very "sticky" then the deviations needed to be overcome would then result in the barrel being more inaccurate.

Miscue....friction does matter, it effects the mass velocity aceleration. The same pricinples are employed in the gas flowing of "performance" cylinder heads within the automotive industry and various other components found in the engines.

Don't be moving this into Deep Blue, unless we all start posting formulae equations to prove our various ideas.

[Miscue]

Efficiency and accuracy do not have a direct correlation. TK notes that a shorter, less efficient barrel has tighter velocity control, which generally translates into some improvement in accuracy. I would think that "some" is more on the lines of "negligible." A minor improvement in velocity control doesn't do a whole lot to overcome the inherant inaccuracy of a paintball... a blunt object with poor aerodynamic qualities.

Changing Barrel B to a sticky barrel makes things unequal... why not put a barrel plug in barrel B too while you're at it? This doesn't make any sense.

I agree, friction "matters." However, the energy lost due to friction from barrel/ball contact is very small in comparison to what is put into propelling the ball.

Hold a barrel vertically, and put a ball in it. If the ball falls through, the deceleration on the ball caused by friction from barrel contact is less than 9.8 m/s^2, the approx. pull of gravity at standard ATM. Use a barrel that fits the ball just enough to keep it from falling, and the deceleration is around 9.8 m/s^2. Use a barrel that's very tight, and the deceleration will be above 9.8 m/s^2.

So, using a properly fitting barrel will result in, let's say, about a rounded 10 m/s^2 deceleration. Now, a paintball can have an instantaneous acceleration of 15240 m/s^2 (50,000 ft/sec^2) to hit 300fps in 10 or so inches. 15240 - 10 = 15230... Whoopty doo. Either way, it's PLENTY to get a ball up to 300fps... the slight loss doesn't matter.

More importantly, this loss is not cummulative. It's one drop in the bucket. Next ball, get a new bucket and start over.

Your reference to an engine is - irrelevant in understanding what goes on in a PB gun. If you fired a cylinder ONE time and measured loss of energy due to friction vs. a better designed engine... it will be negligible... it hasn't even had a chance to build up heat from sustained frictional contact, which really starts to drop performance. However, using an engine how it's intended, that small percentage of energy loss acummulates into something substantial over time. Basically, drops in a bucket that you keep using... eventually you've got enough water retained to bother mentioning.

All this talk about friction - unnecessary.

Let's say you have barrel A and B again, both made of high friction rubber this time...

If you use enough propellant (maybe an explosion in this case) such that you can keep it accelerating throughout the length of each barrel... the longer barrel will have a higher velocity using the same amount of propellant. The fact there's WAY more friction involved in this situation... does not matter. The bottom line is that the friction is not substantial enough to result in 0 acceleration or deceleration.

This is the case with 8-10" barrels vs. shorter barrels.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue


Cuz I said so.

Two-piece barrels typically have 5-6 inch control bores... the tip is not "effective" barrel. One piece barrel has longer effective barrel length.

I guess you don't read very well.What I said was subjective is the fact that "most" one piece barrels are ported at somewhere around 1/2 of the total length.Except where I noted and maybe some others,a typically ported 1 piece is nearly equal to a 2 piece in effective length.Thus the Only remaining difference in efficiency comes from the friction left in the one piece how ever small that might be.

Jay.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue

I agree, friction "matters." However, the energy lost due to friction from barrel/ball contact is very small in comparison to what is put into propelling the ball.

Hold a barrel vertically, and put a ball in it. If the ball falls through, the deceleration on the ball caused by friction from barrel contact is less than 9.8 m/s^2, the approx. pull of gravity at standard ATM. Use a barrel that fits the ball just enough to keep it from falling, and the deceleration is around 9.8 m/s^2. Use a barrel that's very tight, and the deceleration will be above 9.8 m/s^2.

How can you assume the rate of deceleration of a ball not capable of being pulled through the barrel by gravity?
In my own 3 min backyard test,I switched inserts on a freak from almost loose to so tight I though it would break in the barrel and saw + or - 30-40 fps.I'm not sure I would call that negligable.

Jay.

[MarkM]

Miscue, 1st my bad example of using the SAME two letters as you already had Barrel B is a more inefficient barrel due to the friction...yes that word again.

2nd Gas flow technology irrelevent within the paintball world...mmmm well unless the mechanics of gases within a non expanding state have changed...thats what the exhaust manifold on an ICE is, so all those muscle cars owners and souped up rice burners owners are wasting their money ??

3rd keeping this within the boundarys of general understanding will keep this thread in paintball talk...didn't read the last line of my post?

4th As you couldn't have read the last line in my last post..http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...threadid=68567

Honest, just trying to keep this civil

[nerobro]

Originally posted by AutomagBoy
sooo, whats more accurate one piece or two? This should be moved to deep blue.

Neither. that's the simple answer. As long as both launch balls with no spin the balls will be equally accurate.

In theroy a single bore will be more accurate over a wider range of paint. With the larger bore out front you're more likely to get the skip-skip from the sides of the barrel and set that ball spinning heavily.

[Automaggin2]

I dont feel like reading through the whole post, my theroy was probably around said but here it goes

I think 1 piece barrels are beter then 2 piece barrels. In some 2 piece barrels, the back of the barrel is less then 6 inches long, and as you know, the first 6 inches of the barrel is what gets the ball up to speed. No say the back is like 4 inches long, and its stepped bore, like most 2 piece barrels. You should your gun, the ball flows through the first 4 inches, then when it gets to the step, the ball doesnt make a complete seal around the barrel, allowing air to escape around the ball, causing the ball to wobble and for hte gun to use more gas.

[AutomagBoy]

someone should get two of the same barrel except one is two peice and one is one peice and do an accuracy test.

[TippmannMan]

ok im not going to even begin to debate the physics of one vs two piece barrels but does it really matter? its not like the more accurate of the barrels is going to be DRASTICALLY different. a $30 custom products with a good paint match is good enough for me.

[Marek]

Originally posted by joeyjoe367
If it were up to me, I'd have a 1 pc CP barrel for every bore size, and every length.

I agree. I would love to have 5 more CP barrels (I have a CP 1 piece alum. .689) of varying bore sizes at 14 in. Now, just to find a place that sells them with a size other than .689.