Tom: FN 303 and your OC balls save a life

[SIGSays]

sell to the public?

[shartley]

[wobbles82]

Wow, pretty odd stuff. Mango you said Gloucester Township..I live in the area, any idea what town it was and all? Suprised none of us locals heard a dang thing . Anywho, isn't shooting a dude taking a risk? I mean even though im sure those things hurt like no other, couldnt he have still ya know..went throught with his plan? I guess they were sure that 3 quick rounds would be enough to stop him? Just wondering.

[Vanced]

Now guys think about what you would do if you were in that situation. If you had to take your tourney marker and take the bad guy out without harming the little girl.

AGD

Adds just that little extra to " Because Quality Always Shoots Straight..."

Great Story ... Now I just hope 3 kids who just left wall mart don't go shoot up a retirement home picnic or something and go ruin the warm fuzzy feeling...

[GoatBoy]

Wow, pretty odd stuff. Mango you said Gloucester Township..I live in the area, any idea what town it was and all? Suprised none of us locals heard a dang thing . Anywho, isn't shooting a dude taking a risk? I mean even though im sure those things hurt like no other, couldnt he have still ya know..went throught with his plan? I guess they were sure that 3 quick rounds would be enough to stop him? Just wondering.

That's actually exactly what I was wondering... I'm no LEO though, shartley's probably the one with the best knowledge on this.

I guess the presumption is that if he hasn't knifed the kid already, he's obviously hesitating to do it. Kind of like there's very few real "attempted suicides"... You have dead people, and people crying for attention (?) Still, someone's going to have to make the decision and take responsibility if something goes wrong...

Personally, I can't find any leniency in my heart for someone who does that to a child, much less his own child. Would they have done the same thing if the guy had been armed with a gun instead of a knife?



As far as some tournament level marker being used in the same situation... I would absolutely not use some 'tournament level' marker, if by definition this implied any electro based gun with conventional feed system. I see no reason to involve electronics in this sort of situation and device, nor the rather random nature of... almost all the hoppers really. "tournament level" markers are built for consistency within 'safe' parameters, and built for speed and volume. Not sure if any of those apply to this situation. If I wanted to get a job done, I wouldn't want to hear about how the thing chopped a ball because the eye didn't like the color of the OC shell or something, or the HES sensor was acting goofy due to the software revision in the electronics. I'd want a round chambered, ready to go, no questions asked. Pull the trigger, round shoots out, the next one's chambered, no "if's" involved. Looking at the design, that's what it looks like it's tailored for.



The "bragging about accuracy" thing I think falls to the bottom considering range and velocity that we're talking about, as shartley mentioned.

[ZapTheMad]

I dream of the night when I wake up in the middle of the night to some poor schmuck breaking into my car. I'm gonna "tournament level" his *** and give the cops bright green spots to look for in the process

[RenagadeOfFunk]

...I WANT SOME OC Rounds!!!...i hate having no seasonings and only a paintball gun around to spice up my meals... @ 300 fps ...thats fast food...

[Muzikman]

First off, the 303 is NOT a paintball guns. The projectiles, although .68 cal, would not feed in a normal paintball gun unless you loaded one at a time. Two, a normal paintball gun would not have the power to deliver a 303 round any distance.

There would be no point in selling a 303 to the public as (A) It shoots normal paintballs at about 400fps, (B) With a normal paintball it doesn't shoot any better than any other paintball gun.

As far as if they would have used it if it had been a gun, and not a knife. I doubt it. Although the 303 packs quite a punch and the OC would make ya cry, it's not going to stop you from pulling the trigger of a gun. (on a side note, the thread was originally started over a year ago, someone brought it back up because of the FN303's use at the G8 summit in savannah, ga.)

Just incase you guys don't know what one looks like.

FN303 - Stand-a-lone


FN303 - Mounted on M16


FN OC Round (As you see, although .68 cal, not really a ball)



More Info - http://www.spa-simrad.com/fn303launcher.htm

[Muzikman]

...I WANT SOME OC BALLS!!!...i hate having no seasonings and only a paintball gun around to spice up my meals... @ 280 fps ...thats fast food...

I got 5 FN OC rounds..one sitting on top of my monitor

[rx2]

To answer one of the above questions, any time you try to neutralize a hostage situation with force, you are taking a great risk. I am sure they wouldn't just pull on the 303 for any scenario. Every one is different, and I am sure that they had enough information to make the judgement that this was a case where they would be able to use such force without too much of a risk of him actually killing her. For example, if the man had been holding a pistol, with the hammer cocked, a mere flinch could be enough to fire the weapon, provided the mechanism is tuned properly (it is akin to triggering a mouse trap). In such a case, you would probably not want to use such a means for ending the situation. You could still easily pull the trigger after being hit. In such a case, you would need to either sever the radial nerve (which is not feasible in real-life situations), or destroy the brain, which in itself is a crap-shoot, even for the best trained marksman (real life is different from training).

Anyhow, it certainly is a good alternative. My father was in law enforcement for over 25 years (during which he was involved in the somewhat famous Hough riots), and I have seen what can happen to officers when they actually have to use lethal force. Aside from the emotional stress associated with killing someone, you also have to endure evaluations, criticism, and in some cases law suits. These tools are a great alternatives, in the right situations, and should prove invaluable for improving the safety of officers, and the public.

[spaz7676]

Those OC rounds must be great for riot control. I wonder if they have anything like that over in iraq. I would think an OC round would be perfect for stopping looters and dealing with riots. After all, a OC round from a 303 would send a much better message to the iraqi people about why we are there than a 5.56mm round from an m16.

[Muzikman]

Spaz: You use OC rounds when your life is not in danger. Sorry, if I am being shot at by an AK47, I am not gonna be shooting back with a paintball

[spaz7676]

Contrary to popular beliefe, not every iraqi is running around the streets shooting people randomly with AK47's. There are many cases where the army has to police unarmed civilans doing things like rioting and looting. I would never suggest using it instead of an m16 when up against someone armed with a gun, but when you deal with someone who's breaking into a store it would be very useful.

[Muzikman]

Also, I have a feeling that then France and the UN would be screaming that they are using "Chemical" weapons.

[spaz7676]

Also, I have a feeling that then France and the UN would be screaming that they are using "Chemical" weapons.

Possibly. I'm not sure what the deffinition of chemical weapons is according to international law. I wouldn't be suprized however if more leaders in the international community call for some updating to the 'rules of war.' There are so many different weapon systems that blur the lines between what should be allowed and what shouldn't be. Like should we allow sound based weapons capable of making entire crowds of people loose control of their bodily functions? Or should we allow a laser based weapon the Russians were devoloping that was designed to perminently damage the vision of pilots? Right now private security for Haliberton contractors in Iraq are allowed to use frangible bullets (very very deadly and nearly impossible to treat the wounds they inflict) and our soldiers are stuck using ball arounds that are less leathal than ammunition you can buy over the counter at a hunting store. Hopefully there will be a push soon in the UN to update some of these rules to the 21st centry. After all, it's in everyones best interest to allow some chemical based weapons like the OC round.

P.S. If I ever get shipped off to Iraq, I'm writing home to ask for some good old American hallow points. Maybe even some of those frangibles if my folks can get them.