Superlight Mag Trigger?

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  • nerobro
    Registered User
    • Oct 2001
    • 923

    #1

    Superlight Mag Trigger?

    Last night my mind was inordantely fertile.... People were complaining about how the LX changed the feel of the trigger on a mag. IIRC Rob even put the L7 back into his classic mag becuase he prefered it's feel.

    Let me set the scene. For this to work, it requires a properly setup LX. And it will require a new bolt and sear for any of this to work. Ideally it would use a new on/off too.

    The current mag bolt and sear is designed so that no matter how much force is on the mags bolt the sear will still hold. Its a locking design for all intents and purposes. What if we used the bolt's force to our advantage? Like they do on a cocker. Setup the sear so that the bolts force trys to force the sear down. This force will ballance against the on/off making the trigger feel softer. And you won't be dragging the sear the whole way across the bolt, once you start it moving the shape of the bolt will help you move the sear.

    Cockers have been like this for a very long time. They have a sear that's shaped so that just a breath of force on them will cause them to move across the sear lug and drop the hammer. And people good with cockers have known that changing the shape of the sear and lug would change the feel of the trigger pull on a cocker.... the same is true for a mag. Just the forces have been so high that I don't think it would have been a sane move untill the advent of the LX.

    Here is my idea for making a mag's trigger much lighter. As it stands where the sear interface is a cone facing the back of the gun now, you'd have a cone that faced the front of the gun. And instead of a convex face on the sear, you'd need a concave one. Or you could even go a more conservative route and go with a flat bolt face and sear with a flat face as well.

    Of course this leads to another idea. You could tune mag trigger feel with differnet angles and different shapes of the sear and bolt. Just like the cocker...

    Becuase the bolt isn't locking, you'll probally want to time the mag more conservatively (aka longer on/off pin) And that would ensure that the bolt "locked up." A term that's not quite apropreate for a cone shaped bolt interface.

    Picture one is the current bolt and sear setup. Picture two is a less radical design, but more prone to wear. Picture three is what i'm imagining. All of these are exagerated and not to scale, and don't show room for the boltspring, but the idea should come through.


    Image courtasy of KPaint, not MSpaint ;-)
    Last edited by nerobro; 04-28-2003, 11:27 AM.
    To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

    Truth is a complex thing. One must govern by simplicity. -M. Mercier, special counsel to his Majesty for domestic matters. The Brotherhood of the Wolf

    "You can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it."

  • nerobro
    Registered User
    • Oct 2001
    • 923

    #2
    Now there are some concerns with this. Without a properly setup LX the gun will effectively go full auto. turning on and off the on/off and fireing the gun completely ;-) interesting failure mode if you ask me. sorta like a spyder!

    Actually if done right, as soon as you altered the contact of the sear, the gun could jsut slip into a full shot. the triggger could be really freaking short and the gun would "fall" into the rest of the fireing cycle...
    Last edited by nerobro; 04-28-2003, 11:19 AM.
    To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

    Truth is a complex thing. One must govern by simplicity. -M. Mercier, special counsel to his Majesty for domestic matters. The Brotherhood of the Wolf

    "You can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it."

    Comment

    • cphilip
      Former Moderator

      • Jun 2026
      • 16216

      #3
      Be patient grasshopper....


      AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

      cphilip.com

      Comment

      • a_malfunction
        Damnit! It Malfunctioned!
        • Feb 2001
        • 1779

        #4
        Thats a pretty good idea! But like you stated, it does have potential problems. If those could be worked through, that would be awesome!
        -Gig 'Em Ags!

        Comment

        • Skoad
          Registered User
          • Feb 2002
          • 3265

          #5
          i think cphillip knows something we don't......so when's it come out cphil?

          Comment

          • cphilip
            Former Moderator

            • Jun 2026
            • 16216

            #6
            Wha?

            I not know nuttin....


            AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

            cphilip.com

            Comment

            • Grasshopper
              Registered User
              • Apr 2003
              • 578

              #7
              Originally posted by cphilip
              Be patient grasshopper....
              Ok. :)

              My Feedback

              Comment

              • cphilip
                Former Moderator

                • Jun 2026
                • 16216

                #8


                AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                cphilip.com

                Comment

                • beam
                  The end.
                  • May 2001
                  • 2036

                  #9
                  Judging from phil's response and the fact that not too long ago there was a bunch of discussion about a really light mechanial trigger vs. electro, plus the whole thread about measuring the force to pull a trigger, I would say that Tom is working on something similar to this that would exploit the new characteristics of LX.

                  Hopefully.
                  <---Should be banned for circumventing the cuss filter.

                  Comment

                  • nerobro
                    Registered User
                    • Oct 2001
                    • 923

                    #10
                    Lets hope I didn't create an artifical leak. This is just me thinking late at night stuff.... *hopes he's not in troubble*
                    To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

                    Truth is a complex thing. One must govern by simplicity. -M. Mercier, special counsel to his Majesty for domestic matters. The Brotherhood of the Wolf

                    "You can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it."

                    Comment

                    • cphilip
                      Former Moderator

                      • Jun 2026
                      • 16216

                      #11
                      No you did not. At least I do not know if you did not. I have no idea how he accomplished what I cannot say he accomplished... :)


                      AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                      cphilip.com

                      Comment

                      • nippinout
                        FUSP
                        • Jan 2002
                        • 1231

                        #12
                        What irks me is not only cphilip's teasing reply, but that damn frog! The frog, it mocks us!!! It mocks us!!!

                        BAM!
                        TNS2K2's Viagra Adventure!

                        Comment

                        • BTAutoMag
                          AO's Problem Child
                          • Oct 2001
                          • 7199

                          #13
                          my mag trigger is light. i did no shaving on the sear of the on off pin. but its a .5mm pull about as light as a medium e trigger
                          sigpic

                          Comment

                          • Cristobal
                            vox clamantis mag
                            • Mar 2002
                            • 454

                            #14
                            A very interesting idea indeed.

                            Now, what if you made the lip of the bolt face removable. You'd still have the little "flange" at the back of the bolt, but you'd put a steel washer on it before you put the bolt inside the mainspring. Now you could play with different washers which would have having varrying angles where they contact the sear.

                            I think, though, that were it my gun, I'd want a hard safety (a la the emag) that would prevent not just the trigger from moving but also the sear.

                            Comment

                            • BTAutoMag
                              AO's Problem Child
                              • Oct 2001
                              • 7199

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Cristobal
                              I think, though, that were it my gun, I'd want a hard safety (a la the emag) that would prevent not just the trigger from moving but also the sear.
                              thats a great idea, maybe instead of locking the trigger we lock the sear
                              sigpic

                              Comment

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