agd streamlining.....

[Jerhew]

ok this is really just me thinking out loud...
just seemed like the proper place(if any) to say it...

i don't remember where i read it... but a couple weeks ago someone posted something about streamlining the agd line...
i don't really remember who
but since then i've been thinking about the idea and it seems like a solid marketing plan

here's my take on the future of agd...

first thing's first
valves:
classic valve goes aluminum
i'd make the classic valve as much like the x-valve as possible. use as many of the same parts as you can...probably could use basically the same design without the extra air passage for the retro and of course a different on/off. that way most of the parts could be made on the same production line, with an added step to make it an x-valve.

bodies:
ule all the way. no more stainless bodies(don't worry there's already a ton in circulation)
i haven't figured out if or how i'd do a powerfeed ule...
might just do vert and warp versions...
in any case unfortunately that'd mean the end for twist-lock
i personally like twist-lock but i think will continue to make cocker threads standard...besides with level 10, who needs to take their barrel off?
which leads to the next thing

barrels:
i'd stop making barrels completely.
sell a nice high end aftermarket barrel and continue to sell classics without barrels

grip frames:
no more star trek grips!
please!
drop the carbon fiber grip completely. offer a choice of i-frame or y-frame on all guns! yes they are expensive
but seriously these things ought to be stock.
i'd even consider making a single trigger i-frame for people who don't like 2x triggers

the rail:
i'd try to lighten this and make it look better...maybe along the lines of the omega rail...custom colors to match the ule bodies.
even further down the road i'd go with a non-rail body...but not yet

oh ya and the new ultra-light trigger would be a factory upgrade as well as an aftermarket one

ultimately i'd have 3 base models:
the new classic mag
the e-mag
the x-mag

the classic:
ule body with color and feed type choice...free
rail with choice of color...free
choice of i-frame(single or double trigger) or y-frame...free
aluminum classic valve...choice of color...free
upgrade to level 10....add $50
upgrade to ul trigger...add $___
upgrade to x-valve...add $___
choice of _____barrels...add $___
upgrade to chord body(or other sluggos that come out)...add $___

the e-mag and x-mag would essentially stay the same, except the e-mag would come stock with the ule body and both would come with the new, not yet released trigger and of course get a free choice of i-frame(single or double), or y-frame.
i'd also work on some different milling styles for the x-mag to make each year unique

well i think that's all for now
what do you think? (other than this guy has too much time on his hands :P)

[breg]

I agree.
I love a lot about the way AGD is (are? I'm too tired to worry about grammar) going.

However, I'd just go ahead and make all 'Mags at least Retro Valve equipped. In doing so, you basically have an RTP.

I'll miss the twist lock, but we must move forward. I personally think that within the next couple of years that the ULE accessories will be standard on future Mags.

I know, a lot of what I am talking about will make Mags even more expensive. But, as someone much smarter than me once said "You get what you pay for."

Later,
Breg

[Kevmaster]

by making ALL Mags Retro + ....you lose the possibility of getting ANYONE who doenst want to spend $500+


there will always be a classic valve

[askman]

like it or not, you need to have a 200 buck marker for the entry level market. While most of us here will not hesistate to spend more, for majority of the players, 200 is about a limit of their spending for first or second marker. I guess tom is going to use up left over SS part to fill this market. And classic valve is still a decent valve for hi/lo marketting. It is still good performing valve, better than many on the market. Going to aluminum may not be a bad idea, but not if you already have ton of SS parts in stock. May be after you run out.

[CoFFeY[NiTrO]]

What is the fun in getting a mag like that?!?!?!


With all the upgrades and everyone says should be a must have?

That makes it no fun. Well....fun to look at but..

[mrkbik]

I don't think you'd be able to call it a "classic" mag after all that is done. You are talking about changing every part of the gun. Why not just make a new gun that has a ULE, intelliframe, omega rail, and aluminum valve? Then you could sell that one, but also not lose the customers who would like a cheap, reliable, classic mag.

[Kevmaster]

hers why you can do it

a ULE body doesnt cost more than a old body.
a LX bolt kit doesnt cost MUCH more than a regular bolt kit
an aluminum valve doesnt cost more than a SS valve

you can make running changes on those parts easily without increasing cost, but adding features. now, a intelliframe costs a LOT more than the carbon fibre frames (esp considering AGD has tons of them). thats why you wont see a i-frame on a classic. you may see ULE bodies and lx bolts and alum valves though

[Creative Mayhem]

I say stick with the durable bodies SS CANT BE KILLED! Now if AGD decided to make and alum version of the minimag body then i would be on that in a heartbeat I wouldn't care about cost!! (hint hint... Tom are you listening to me? )

AGD needs a low cost entry level marker, which is what the classic is. If they go up grading all the parts you mentioned, it would not be a cheap entry level marker and the buyer would go elswhere. From a long time AGD user's perspective, these upgrades may sound all well and good, but to the new user, trigger frames make no diff to them(unless the are electro frames) The new user just wants a marker that will work no matter what happens. THEY JUST WANT IT TO WORK.... PERIOD

CM

[Jerhew]

well i figured i'd start out with the most radical ideas then work my way back...
i'd also like to mention that this was my "look into the future" more than anything...i didn't mean next week...
maybe in the next 1-3 years though

going with what Kevmaster said....if put into serious mass production the ule body would probably be much cheaper than it's stainless counterpart...
aluminum is cheaper than stainless(and btw aluminum is plenty rugged for a paintball gun...as long as you aren't using it as a hammer or something )
and the same would go for a classic valve made of aluminum

and after thinking about it some more i guess it'd be easier to keep the carbon frame...just maybe update them with cool new grips(too bad dye doesn't make stickies for that style frame)

the idea is that concentrating on fewer types of parts and making more of them...production costs would go down

oh ya i guess they'd have to come up with a new name for the classic...

askman said:
"Going to aluminum may not be a bad idea, but not if you already have ton of SS parts in stock. May be after you run out."
agreed...im not saying do all of this right now...this is a down the road, use up what is in house first type of idea

CoFFey-if you can still get the gun out the door for close to the same price, it'd save the consumer lots of cash by not having to upgrade later.

mrkbik- the idea is to streamline, not add more products...
you can still make it cheap and reliable...probably cheaper if they were produced in higher numbers(just as long as agd didn't sacrifice on the quality control)

[cphilip]

Re: agd streamlining.....

Originally posted by Jerhew
Re: agd streamlining.....

Well... Tom told me I could use to drop a few pounds... does that count? Maybe it's all part of a plan? Assuming we HAVE a plan...


No seriously, the remake or should we say "dress up" of the classic Mags...Tom has said several times is in the works. And some of the things you mention are naturaly directions they would go. And I think its gonna be not too far off myself. All the pieces seem to be there now...

[Frank (the spank)]

It was me. It was in reply to Tom's thread about the X-Mag shortage.

Here it is:

Originally posted by Frank (the spank)
Anyone else think that streamlining would be a good idea here?

I work for Apple Computer (hey, I use to work for IBM and them Intel, so I have SOME credit, lol) and before Steve Jobs made his return the company was in the toilet. They had too many product lines and most of the time they got stuck with crap in their warehouses and had to sell at a loss. They then licensed it's OS to other companies.. what happened? They sold faster machines that were cheaper than Apples. Why? Streamline. They had a low, a mid, and a high end system. that was it. No "performa 2 3 556 678 and 4567" and then a completely different line with more shades of grey..

Steve Jobs came back... first thing he did was yank 3rd party licenses, 2nd.. streamline Apple.

Today there is the 4 square. We have a high end Desktop (PowerMac), a low end desktop (iMac), a high end notebook (PowerBook) and a low end notebook (iBook). Then three models for each, and the only difference is options, more ram, faster CPU and thats about it.

AGD... do the same! dump the RT and the E-Mag, make a low and a high and thats it.

Make some sorta ULE Classic, then an Xmag, and from there have color options and accessories.

Am I alone here in thinking that would be a good move? just a suggestion. I'll shut up now and go back to waiting on my front porch in the fetal position for the UPS dude.. (got aFlateline coming )

[plmcmahon]

AGD already has the "four corner" system:

Low end mechanical (Classic)
High end mechanical (RT Pro)
"Low" end electronic (EMag)
High end electronic (XMag)

It seems like they have that covered.

[BTAutoMag]

Originally posted by breg
However, I'd just go ahead and make all 'Mags at least Retro Valve equipped. In doing so, you basically have an RTP.

no. there will always be someone like me who has NO access to HPA and needs to use co2. i live 20-30 min away from the closest fill station and my dealer does co2 now because i was the only oneuseing the HPA

[aaron_mag]

Seems to be the natural directions things are going. The real question is does anyone really look to AGD for a low end marker? I think of AGD as more mid level to upper.

I don't see the classic competing with the Spyder and Piranhas out there as those things are ridiculously cheap. So even the classic is more mid range rather than low range. In that case I think that most classic buyers would be willing to pay a little more for ULE body, Omega rail, and Level 10. Just my 2 cents...

[puckmaster]

Originally posted by plmcmahon
AGD already has the "four corner" system:

Low end mechanical (Classic)
High end mechanical (RT Pro)
"Low" end electronic (EMag)
High end electronic (XMag)

It seems like they have that covered.

I dont think that the e-mag is there low end electronic. A low end electronic is like a spyder flash or BKO. The E-Mag and the X-Mag are in the same class IMO.