Quad O-ring vs. Standard O-ring (mag on/off assembly)

[Jack & Coke]

Why does the RT, Retro, and X-Valve use a urethane "o-ring" for the on/off?



...while the E-Valve and XMAG use a "Quad" o-ring?



What's the difference?

Advantages?

Disadvatnages?

Why not use a "Quad" o-ring in ALL mags (mechanical as well as E)?

I use a Quad in my Retro, but I'm not sure if it really makes a difference. Does it?

Just curious... thanks

[steveg]

quad-rings were mostly designed to reduce friction, compared
to o-rings but here, I suspect that it is also used to
alter on/off timing. If you look at the two side-by-side
you will notice that an o-ring seals on the center of it's
thickness were as a quad-ring seals near its edge.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by steveg
quad-rings were mostly designed to reduce friction, compared
to o-rings but here, I suspect that it is also used to
alter on/off timing. If you look at the two side-by-side
you will notice that an o-ring seals on the center of it's
thickness were as a quad-ring seals near its edge.

Reduce friction? Isn't there more "material" in contact with the on/off pin when using the Quad O-ring as oppossed to a regular "round" o-ring?

of/off timing? Couldn't that be acheived by just altering the length of the on/off pin itself?

Does it add to "reactivity"? If so, why not install them on the mechanical mags?

Why is it used only on Electro mags?

[steveg]

Actually friction is a "dimensionless" value it is not
related to surface area.

an o-ring works because it's being squeezed between the two
surfaces that it's sealing.

a quad-ring seals in part because of that squeeze and in part
and because it is deformed by the (air) pressure against it

the quad shape makes it much more flexable compared to
a standard o-ring so it grips the pin more softly.

The quad-ring does change the timing assuming you use
the same pin If I'm right that this was the intent,
perhaps AGD didn't want yet another pin length.

[Jack & Coke]

But why do all this if the on/off is powered by a powerful solenoid?

Why NOT do it for mechanical mags also? Would mech's benefit as well (if indeed there are benefits)?

Why do mech's get the o-ring and E's get the quad? If the Quad is that much better, why not Quad for all mags?

[sniper1rfa]

the quad would freeze if you were using a classic (running co2, which is why they still make then).

[Tunaman]

The quad oring was designed to help increase battery life on the emag...and it does just that.

[BlackVCG]

The correct answer:

The quad o-ring moves the seal point to the top and bottom of the o-ring. Regular cast 90 durometer urethane o-rings (like the one used for the on/off top in non-E-Mag valves) have a cast mark in the center of the o-ring. This cast mark can catch the pin and keep it from pushing back out to reset the gun in E-Mode. If you use these o-rings, you'll get what appears to be bolt stick, but it's actually the on/off pin sticking. You have to put it in manual mode and pull the trigger to reset the pin.

Casting the o-ring the way it is for the quad o-ring eliminates the cast mark and being a lower durometer rating, it doesn't have the pin stick problem.

[Jack & Coke]

Excellent!

[steveg]

So why doesn't pin stick happen on manual mags or even
hyperframe mags (like mine, NEVER happened)

what about E-mags make it a unique problem?

[Jack & Coke]

BlackVCG,

If you had both o-rings (normal and quad), which would you put in your mechanical mag?

[Jack & Coke]

If it's true what people have posted about the "less friction" and "better seal" properties of the quad o-ring:

Has any of the AGD techs ever tried using this "QUAD" style o-ring for the Level 10 carriers?

Since it's sometimes tricky to find a balance between:

-> air-tight seal without leaking

and

-> minimized friction

for the Level 10 (that's why you have so many different carriers), would a quad o-ring help?

[Gunga]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
Has any of the AGD techs ever tried using this "QUAD" style o-ring for the Level 10 carriers?

The quad & RT reg seat o-rings (used in the L10 carriers) are different sizes. The quad is a lot smaller.

Besides, the casting mark on the urethane oring gets worn down by the power piston of the L10 bolt through use - thus the leak down the barrel when you break in the oring in your L10 carrier.

Additionally, if you were to go to a quad, the vent point would change slightly and might require a change to the L10 bolt design, however slight.

[Jack & Coke]

I know the quad is a lot smaller. But what if you had the "right" size quad?

Other than the casting mark and location of the seal (edge vs middle), are there any other benefits to using the quad? (i.e. less friction, better seal?)

thanks gunga

[Dayspring]

I see somebody is in need of Tom's "Oring talk."