Cheaters?

[Albinonewt]

Hey guys. I've only been back into paintball for about a year now and I wanted to see how often the rest of you experience cheaters, and to see how comparable it is to my experience.

I play in Eastern PA as often as I can, it's a great field and a lot of fun to play there. They are gigantic! The problem is, they attract a lot of players that cheat, and pretty badly, and the refs tend not to do anything about it.

Now, I've noticed that the majority of the people that cheat come from New York, in the city. I think the reason they cheat is because of the way the refs tend to run the game. Because the fields are so big, it tends to take 10-20 minutes to walk to a field, a few minutes for setup, and then they play 20 minute games (that always take 30 minutes). So I think the reason these guys cheat is because they drove 90 minutes to get to paintball, spent nearly an hour in the staging area (an entirly different story) and then see that we only play 2 games every 90 minutes or so, so they refuse to go out because they want to play and they're tired of waiting. Although I hardly blame them (hell, I don't like waiting to play either)it makes the game rather unenjoyable, if there's always a group that does nothing but cheat.

A couple weeks ago I saw a group of 10 (all with their own low end gear, 98's and the like) and in 8 hours of play not one guy EVER saw the dead zone. They all had paint on them, but they never died.

2 weeks ago there was a guy hiding in the woods, I lit him up really bad, probably 10 balls broke on him that I could see. Then he ran to the back and disappeared. 1 minute later he was back, so i killed him again, then he ran back. The whole time i was looking for a ref, but these fields are HUGE! The third time he came back I had a buddy with me, and I lit this guy up like you couldn't believe. My buddy actually took my gun and pointed it down to make me stop. Then the guy just walked back into the woods. He came at us a fourth time and I just ignored him and went to the other flank and killed a bunch of his non-cheating teammates (they didn't come with him). A few minutes of that go by and I get shot in the back by that guy. In the deadzone he is covered with paint bragging about how he killed me and half my team. I wanted to slug him. Instead, I just rinsed and repeated the next game. He may have gotten me out twice, but I don't envy his bruises and welts...

[Kevmaster]

In rec ball, I play at a smaller local field where I know everyone. Most games are 3v3 speedball...maybe 5v5. I've never experienced cheating there. Hell, most of the time there is no ref on the feild...
now, occasionally, we don't play paintball...we play PAINballl...but thats only when Rasheed Wallace (Yes, te NBA player) comes to the field. That entails playing till you WANT to go out...no matter how shot up you are.


now, the tournies are a whole different game. Cheating is rampant. its sad to see it like that. Nobody comes CLOSE to policing thmeselves...and for what...a $500 prize that BARELY covers their entry and paint? bogus....

[Wickster]

Albinonewt,

Sounds like you play at Skirmish, yes?

I used to judge there about 10 years ago, and at that time the judging was pretty good. The fields are huge, so the refs can't be everywhere. I know because I was always running my *** off all over the field to do paint checks (I can still hear "CHECK HIM REF!!!! in my sleep). Why didn't you approach one fo the refs after the game? If he had that much paint on him from one game, I'm sure the ref would know there was a problem.

When I judged at Skirmish, there were 2 judges per field and one was usually on one side (near one flag station) and one on the other. We also followed the general action on the field by hearing where it was. There should have been a ref around somewhere for you to find.

If they wouldn't do something about a constant cheater (which you didn't give them the opportunity to do), ask to be switched to another field/group. There was always a huge number of groups playing there, usually including more than one field (group) of walk-ons.

As a side note, I also found the players from NYC to be more difficult to deal with. One swung the tank end of his marker at my head after I called him out for the game for continually playing with his goggles off. (I kicked him off the field for that )

[FatMan]

Re: Cheaters?

Originally posted by Albinonewt

2 weeks ago there was a guy hiding in the woods, I lit him up really bad, probably 10 balls broke on him that I could see. Then he ran to the back and disappeared. 1 minute later he was back, so i killed him again, then he ran back. The whole time i was looking for a ref, but these fields are HUGE! The third time he came back I had a buddy with me, and I lit this guy up like you couldn't believe. My buddy actually took my gun and pointed it down to make me stop. Then the guy just walked back into the woods. He came at us a fourth time and I just ignored him and went to the other flank and killed a bunch of his non-cheating teammates (they didn't come with him). A few minutes of that go by and I get shot in the back by that guy. In the deadzone he is covered with paint bragging about how he killed me and half my team. I wanted to slug him. Instead, I just rinsed and repeated the next game. He may have gotten me out twice, but I don't envy his bruises and welts...

Man, if someone did that to me I'd throw down my marker, run over there, kick him in the stones, and give him and uppercut to the chin. Then I'd pull out my Bowie knife and tell him if he ever did that to me again I'd cut him from stem to stern! The bastard!

FatMan

[Tack]

At my local field most of the regulars have kicked out the bad apples. There used to be a small number of players who would not accept that they were eliminated by someone else, no matter what skill level the other player was at. These players eventually got sick of being back shot by their own team mates while the reff would stand beside them and call them out for it. I know, I was one of the reffs, or one of the teammates that would shoot them. I can't stand cheaters. I don't like it in high competition tourney play, but to do it just to be a prick during rec play is completely stupid.

I also play big game/scenario games. I have ran into a lot of problems when I travel to some of the bigger events. My last experience was D-Day OK. This past June. I was trading shots with a German player across an open field. I saw three balls fly in on him. One of which broke on his goggles. He ducked behind a tree and then popped back out again with a nice little blue smear across his lenses but continued shooting. I gogged him again, Same result. Needless to say after I finally got fed up with the whole situation and decided I was too mad to even want to play anymore, I left the field and found out that most of the allied players were complaining about the same things. I'm sure there were Allies that did the same thing (So German players can't counter that all the Allies are perfect), but being on the Allied side I heard a lot of things. Also from personal experience I know that one of the German tanks was shooting very hot. It was caught later on in the day and chronoed at about 450 or so. This tank came rolling through one of our positions and lit us all up. I was shot in the back through a bunch of brush from about 60 feet away and the hit still sent me falling forward. Once I examined the hit I realized just how hot the gun was. I don't bruise very easily, but this shot (again from 60+ feet away through brush, almost ripped a hole in my shirt and left me with a bloody whelp that throbbed for the rest of the day, and I could barely lay on my left side for several days afterwards because it was so sore.

I guess the moral of this is, unfortunately no matter how honest you play, no matter how well you think the reffing is, and no matter where you play you will always run into cheaters. What to do about it? God knows, but try to stay away from them if possible. I attended the last two D-Days and I will not attend another one. Cheating was only one of the problems, however it was a very big one. The rest is not pertinent to this thread so I will leave it at that.

[Z-man]

Defiantly sounds like those "l33t n00bz" online who cheat and call themselves godly (oh how I wish for a paintgun then).

Still I think you have it right. That is a huge field and a long game time so I can see how if you got shot once certain unsavory people might want to stay in.

At the place I ref and play at, the fields are very small (3 acres or less) and the games go NO more than 12 minutes. Keeps the dead players happy and makes everyone push that much more due to the time limit.

[Albinonewt]

Wickstar:

Yeah, it was at Skirmish. And I did tell the one of the refs after the game (a guy I know fairly well) and he concurred that there was cheating, but simply that he couldn't be everywhere to catch it all.

The main problem I have with their refs is poor time management skills (although this guy was one of the really good ones). And the cheating also gives me headache.

[Miscue]

Everyone should have to wear white cotton shirts, pants, and mittens.

I hate cheaters. There should be a high penalty... like chopping off appendages.

It just makes it pointless to even bother playing. I don't buy great gear, get good paint, and try to stay in decent shape... so that people can steal what time and effort I've put in on and off the field.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Miscue
Everyone should have to wear white cotton shirts, pants, and mittens.

I hate cheaters. There should be a high penalty... like chopping off appendages.

It just makes it pointless to even bother playing. I don't buy great gear, get good paint, and try to stay in decent shape... so that people can steal what time and effort I've put in on and off the field.

Yeah, everything he said (except staying in shape)

[Recon by Fire]

Cheating sucks! I have seen refs re-insert players after they were eliminated early in the game. Wipe 'em off and return them for those big games, long walks, etc...

[adam shannon]

i play with alot of newbs that cheat...when playing against known cheaters i just shoot them more...and just keep shooting till the welts take their toll. i bunkered a kid who had retreated to wipe my first shots. i came around and lit him up while he was wiping in the bunker.

if people are gonna cheat..either report them to the refs/field owner/field manager...or just play for welts not eliminations.

[Crazy]

sounds like a lot of recball complaints... when you play tourny ball you just learn to accept it and play on.

[FatMan]

Originally posted by Miscue
Everyone should have to wear white cotton shirts, pants, and mittens.

I hate cheaters. There should be a high penalty... like chopping off appendages.

It just makes it pointless to even bother playing. I don't buy great gear, get good paint, and try to stay in decent shape... so that people can steal what time and effort I've put in on and off the field.

Miscue, I like the way you think! I'm thinking a finger for playing on, a toe for calling a paintcheck when you KNOW you are out, a hand for wiping ... oh the possibilities!

I'll be on the sidelines after the game with my machette!

FatMan

[hitech]

I run into the big rec ball field, not enough refs to cover it also. When one of us is eliminated (the guys I play paintball with) and suspect the other guys are playing quite straight up we "hang out" near them on our way out. This works best of cource if you can be out of bounds while you hang out. You can still check players are you walk out. I've been amazed how much better my aim gets when one of my friedns is watching.

[FatMan]

but seriously folks ...

I've never run into much cheating in recball - mostly when I do its dweebs that don't matter anyway and if they wipe, I just light 'em up (I normally try not to hit rec'ers more than once or twice). They eventually decide to give up. Most of the serious players I have had chance to play recball with see no reason to cheat, and will happily call themselves out.

Not so in a tourney. Not only have I seen cheating in a tourneys, but a REAL favorite is the accuse OTHERS of cheating - sometimes even AFTER the thing is over and it doesn't matter any more.

One thing I've noticed is that EVERYONE on the sidelines is an expert and they love to holler at the refs and tell them so-and-so is out. When I run the field, I make it clear I penalize for outside interference - whether it is for good or naught. The refs will call them game, they might make some good calls, they might make some bad - its part of the game. Have you ever watched major league baseball? ever seen a bad call. Well, you see 'em on the paintball field too. Thing is, not all "bad" calls are bad - sometimes if you are down on the field you have a better look at it. If refs work well in teams, there is more than one pair of eyes. Just 'cause you don't agree with the ref, doesn't mean he's cheating!

Anyway, I think the bigger question is why can't we get the serious players - who KNOW how to play clean - to play clean in a tourney? I'm not talking about missing a hit on the toe, I mean the obvious playing on and things like that.

FatMan