03 shocker :(

[GT]

Originally posted by Marek

There are great products out there with great companies, and great products with shady companies. I can make due with a company like AGD and get there stuff. And, I can be proud of the equipment that I own. Might mean nothing to you, but means a lot to me.

I think that is kinda imature as well as a little nieve.

Have you ever shopped at wall mart?

Ever buy Nike shoes?

Trust me the companies you buy from everday do much more evil stuff than little ol' SP.

jb

[Marek]

Originally posted by gtrsi
More internet rumor mill. One of the such rumors I heard was the lawsuit is over a yet unseen new ICD gun. I am a "proof" kinda guy. I am not going to hurl raw emtions into the SP debate becuase I have yet to see the results of the lawsuit. Even if everything that folks have said is true you will never see me comparing sp to Hitler and his fun group.

I really want to see some court documents or even the broad patent that SP has been given.

jb

Like I said earlier, I don't want to turn this thread into another SP battle. You have your opinions, I have mine. If you feel like discussing this more, lets move it to PMs.

[Marek]

Originally posted by gtrsi


I think that is kinda imature as well as a little nieve.

Have you ever shopped at wall mart?

Ever buy Nike shoes?

Trust me the companies you buy from everday do much more evil stuff than little ol' SP.

jb

How is this, what I believe, immature? I believe that I can find good products from other companies other than SP. If I want a gun, I can buy an X-Mag, if I want a tank a Flatline. If I want a barrel system, then I can get an Evil or CP barrel kit.

Ever buy Nikes? Wal-Mart? Yes, I have. Do I revolve a large part of my life around buying shoes? Or shopping for food? No, I don't. It is something that I do not take a valid interest in. Is that wrong, well maybe, but that is the truth.

Paintball is a large part of my life, as a hobby. I enjoy the sport and follow it with enjoyment. I am not saying that every single unethical practice that goes on in the business world is going to affect my judgement on which products to buy or not. It does for paintball.

It seems that you are just picking away at my posts and that is your right. You don't understand or agree with my point, and that is fine. It is not your money that I am spending or not, and that will not change. That is the beauty of this country; the freedom to buy from whom we want. I will not buy from SP or NPS and that is my right and decision. I am not criticizing or judging ppl that do buy from SP, so why are you judging me if I refuse to?

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by gtrsi


More internet rumor mill. One of the such rumors I heard was the lawsuit is over a yet unseen new ICD gun. I am a "proof" kinda guy. I am not going to hurl raw emtions into the SP debate becuase I have yet to see the results of the lawsuit. Even if everything that folks have said is true you will never see me comparing sp to Hitler and his fun group.

I really want to see some court documents or even the broad patent that SP has been given.

jb

What he said. When and if it goes into public record then I'll say something. In my 13 years of playing, I've never seen such a lynch mob attitude that most(not all) of you guys put out there.

[GT]

Originally posted by Marek

I am not criticizing or judging ppl that do buy from SP, so why are you judging me if I refuse to?

Like you said you can buy whatever you want. I just dont understand why you would feel the need to boycott a company simply because they enforce "thier" patent?

Again what SP does is nothing compared to what buisnesses do EVERYDAY. Do I think it is nieve, you bet. DO I think you are some moron kid, no. However I believe that changing your lifestyle on a precieved action is an error. Remember SP has yet to flex its muscle and actually changed anything. I may, like you, change my ways someday, however I will not do so blindly. This is not a sistuation, in my view, that can be hanlded in a proactive manner.


(I dont really want to leave this to PMs because I feel we BOTH have important convections that need to be shared witht the folks on AO)

jb

[manike]

Originally posted by gtrsi
I really want to see some court documents or even the broad patent that SP has been given.

I'm suprised you haven't.

Both sets of information are freely available on the net from their prospective sources.

If you'd read the threads about SP you would have seen links that directed you to this stuff.

Their patents are very easy to find, the court docs a little harder but not much.

There is a lot of rumour and BS, yes, but some of the hard facts are difficult to ignore without burying your head in the sand. If you want proof you can find it for yourself from independent sources.

[FooTemps]

Yes, there is a lot of rumor. BUT, this is going on. It may be out of proportion with a few.. okay, maybe a lot of things, but it's going on.

Anyway, if you want a press release, you'll have to wait until SP corners the market before anyone says anything. Then you'll complain when it's too late.

[WARPED1]

Why would I complain? I own a Shocker, soon an 03 Shocker too.
manike, can you post a link maybe? That would be cool, only because I have no clue where to look. You can pm it if you'd rather.:)

[jinxed]

Originally posted by manike


There is a lot of rumour and BS, yes, but some of the hard facts are difficult to ignore without burying your head in the sand.

The "latest" rumor is that the lawsuit was moved to October, then postponed indefinetly because of some 'new' information that ICD had, possibly destroying SmartParts case....

But... still waiting for actual information.

nick

[manike]

Originally posted by WARPED1
manike, can you post a link maybe? That would be cool, only because I have no clue where to look. You can pm it if you'd rather.:)

So I should do a search for the links rather than the people that haven't followed the threads do a search for the links? Most if not all the information was posted up in the thread here on AO. Or it was linked in that thread to the correct pages. You can find it yourselves. People posting they don't know what is going on or what is fact? Only because they haven't been paying attention already.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If you didn't read them the first time and follow what was going on, why would you do it the second time? If you want to know what is going on and see all the information, fact and rumour, go read the SP thread. Dig out the facts there, look at the independent sources, and make your mind up. Just don't try to pretend the facts and indepenent sources aren't available.

If you want to see the patents go to www.uspto.gov and search for them. I'm tired of showing people what is going on and them not listening and pretending it hasn't/isn't happening.

Jinxed I know the case was postponed until October, but I don't know of it having been postponed indefinitely as a fact. Could be though... I'm trying to get independent corroboration of that.

[Marek]

I just don't want the thread to be closed because of the SP debate. Too many casualties already.

There are practices that I find disgusting in the business world. Sony hiring cheap labor in Mexico for a $1 an hour because they do not want to pay $6 on the US side. Hiring children, etc. It's bad, and I don't agree with it, seeing it first hand where I live. That is life, and I understand and see it. To say that I am naive or uninformed is incorrect.

And no, I am not comparing Sp with Nazis or Hitler or anything to that extent. I see that as childish and pointless. But from the information that I've seen here and other forums, I have made my decision. Doc Nickel had an excellent post here on AO in another thread about what SP is doing and has done and that to me was enough to form my decision. I guess I have the popular idea, but that is not to say that I am some ill informed child. My view is that they are trying to change the sport in their favor, and of course there will be ppl that don't believe that, for whatever reason. Be it that it's not enough info, or that you like SP, or other reasons.

I don't see the positive aspect of this at all, be it as the return of mechs and that electros will be long gone. I see it as a way to stop the evolution that the sport is taking. Be it a good step forward, or a step in the wrong direction, it will probably hurt the sport nonetheless.

That is why I do not agree with what NPS did. They are just strenghting the case of SP by acknowledging the patent. I dont agree with the patent's validility, but that is not for me to decide. It seems that the only way you will believe this is if the court documents are released or there is an announcement from the companies. But as stated earlier, they cannot divulge anything due to court hearings.

So, we are at a standstill. You think its bogus, I don't. I think there is enough info for this, and you don't. You may or may not buy there stuff, and I won't. Like you said, you might change your ways later on, I changed my mind now. We may not agree with our ideas, but I do believe that we are on the same page. Only time will tell what will happen, and hopefully it will be something that is good for the sport.

[Quickling]

ok..... so back to the shocker. One thing I did like about it was that my eyes and muscles said two completly different things.

My eyes told me i was holding a gun... but the muscles thought my hands were empty. Its friggin light. Like unbelivebly light.

I did hate the feel of the tank and the setup.. it made the gun WAY too close to my face and I dont like that wrist angle. But that could be soved with a slight mirco drop just reversed.

To respond to the matrix comment. No I havent shot one, but I honestly think they are one of the most ugly guns I have EVER seen. I would almost take an alien over one 9at least the alien has some odd charm to it).

The efficency of the 03 is prolly gonna be that of a non propaintball trix, since the whole valve/bolt seems very much like a matrix.

Now onto the foregrip.. WIERD! That was really odd holding onto.. I dont like it one bit. This is also the reason I think they come with max-flos. SP wanted a certain look to the 03 and the foregrip is obviosuly stylised to be part of the look. They did not wish to ruin these lines by adding a large reg. Hence the maxie.

Same thing if you wanted to run a fancy forgrip on a cocker.. Ya simply gotta put that reg somewhere. So I bet if you found a way to mount a vertical reg in place of that grip you could take off the maxie.

Also I dont like the price tag. If it were 700 or so I would buy the gun, but paying 1100 I can think of a lot of stuff I would rather have.

Plus I feel neverous buying ANY product, I dont care if its AGD, ICD, or WGP.. I dont want to buy any new to the market gun that is completely new to the line. I simply want to wait at least a couple months to find out any bugs... to get real user reviews and to see if there are any short comings that I wont be able to stand.

[UltimatePaintballer]

buy it, you like it that much. i like some smart parts stuff just not the people that work there that are deciding this.

[Fatjon]

well our team is sopposed to be getting sponsored (dont know the guy but free money). HE says he is ordering our guns tommorow. I asked for a 2k3 shocker with the eye so ill find out how it shoots.

[FalconGuy016]

Originally posted by Marek


Like I said earlier, I don't want to turn this thread into another SP battle. You have your opinions, I have mine. If you feel like discussing this more, lets move it to PMs.

Doesnt look like that worked