Dont be a Victim!

[Steelrat]

Re-read my first post. I mentioned it. I am just not a huge fan of them, because nothing is fomalized. Its just another matter of "trust." I don't like risking $1000s of dollars on "trust." There is way to much fraud that goes on in the world, and most of it takes place because one person trusts another when they really shouldn't. Trust me on this , I know all about fraud.

Are there good, reliable third-party services? Yes. But in the end you are trusting someone else to determine if the product you are getting is going to make you happy. Trades almost require the use of third party services, but for a sale, Id just use an escrow.

Also, if the person says "I know a great person who does a third party service" and you've never heard of them. This should definately make your spider-senses tingle a bit.

[GoatBoy]

Oops sorry, missed it while I was going back and forth between three threads.

[Steelrat]

Good info. from another thread, especially the part about getting tracking/delivery confirmation and insurance for everything you send. Thats EXTREMEMLY important, as the tracking proves someone recieved something, and the insurance protects you if they claim they never got what you sent.

Here it is:

Well it seems like a lot of scams are getting pulled lately so I thought I'd put this up for those new to Internet trading and too dang trusting.Anyone with other advice please add.....

Be weary of Sellers with 0 or very few posts.

Be weary of Sellers with no feedback.

Be weary of sellers who offer no pics or old pics.

If at all possible use a 3rd party trading service or some other common ground contact.

Be weary of Sellers who REFUSE to use 3rd party even if you pay the fees.

Get a current picture of the gun and the Seller in the same pic.

Never send cash or any other non-tracable form of payment.(western union)

ALLWAYS, ship insured and with delivery confermation.

If they offer "next day air at no additional cost" is often used to scam the impatient,and seems to imply you would be aware of a scam right away so it must be legit.Be aware,no one would offer to lose $50-$100 or more in shipping costs just to close a deal.

Search for the Sellers user name on this and other trading forums and see if he is making deals on the same merchandise.(Try variations and possible AIM or Email names)

Don't be afraid to sound like a newb and ask others on the boards for advice,that's what we are here for,we can verify estemated values,addresses,phone numbers and personal experiences.

And be smart,if it smells fishy or seems to good to be true,(Brand new A4 w/AIR $500shipped)it probably is.There is no shame in backing out if you don't feel right and are unsure.

That's it for now.Any one else that can help,pitch in,maybe if we stick together we can stop some of these before they happen.

Jay.

[afrankart]

if someone can get me his address, the guy in your ling, I would gladly look him up, he only live 20 minutes away from me. not only does he go by financierwill, but also William Eric, I believe. I actually pm's him a few times about getting together to play. If this person ripped someone off, let me know, and I would gladly knock on his door.

[DWill]

Good post, I haven't been ripped off yet although I have only done a few trades on the internet. I sent my barrel to nospmas11 first, because I had no feedback here ( I volunteered to do this, don't let someone scam you into this) took all the appropiate steps and just hoped that he would send the money. I went on my vacation and sure enough there was a money order sitting on my porch and a letter thanking me for trusting him. So the internet isn't so bad, you can get some great deals and get rid of old stuff that you don't want anymore, just gotta find the right people.

[xen_100]

had a similar experiance

my girlfriends car was stolen, I had my check book in there when it was stolen. they proceeded to use my account number to buy porn and all kinds of stuff.(even signed his own name to MY checks) I got his IP address from many of the internet places that he bought stuff from. got his phone number, name, address, all the docs from the internet places of what he ordered and where he asked it to be delived (his home address), canceled checks, everything. all they had to do was take 10 minutes to look at all the stuff I had to implicate this guy and go arrest him. The officer I kept giving this stuff too was amazed at what I was able to do tracking this guy down. I bugged them for 2 months to do something. they finnally said that check fraud was far too common and they had more important things to do!

I got all my money back (gotta love bank of americas zero liability) but they never did anything. I handed them the guy on a silver platter!

good luck, but I would handle this yourself, vigilante style if you want anything done

[Steelrat]

This brings up another interesting point. Do you know that some cities actually have fraud amount thresholds? So, someone could rip you off to the tune of $2000, but since that DA's office has a threshold of $5000 for prosecution, they will decline to prosecute it, no matter how much clear evidence you have. So protect yourself by not getting into a position where you have to think about prosecution.

And an update on feedback not being a perfect indicator of reliability. Check out the JAM situation in the Dealer's Forum http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...readid=101586. Protect yourself.

[GT]

my new rule is that I only deal with folks that I can drive to on a weekend. and Yes I have threatened to show up at there place a few times.

[hitech]

Re: Re: Dont be a Victim!

Originally posted by RogueFactor
#1---Let me see JAM's extensive feedback thread you speak of.

It appears that some of the feed back has been deleted. When "I" purchased an eMag from him I researched him first. I quit reading after awhile. There was a lot of positive feed back. I found no negative feed back. I also had a very positive experience. He had inadvertently put the wrong on/off pin in the eMag. When I PMed him and he discovered the error he 2nd day shipped the correct pin to me.

Now the only feed back I found was this:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76646&highlight=JAM

[abaez]

I don't know what the next best alternative is to feedback?

Yes past actions might not indicate future ones, but would you rather trade someone with 1 or 2 feedbacks or 6 or 7? That answer is simple. Feedback is the best/simplest way to see if someone is a legit/decent seller, and if there was something better the internet would have adopted it long ago.

On another note, while having a feedback thread here is nice, there is a website dedicated to feedback at www.heatware.com The people who run the site are quick to take action on any type of bad activity and while not many people know about it, I find it the easiest way to judge if someone is worth buying from, and easiest to leave feedback to (instead of registering on a forum you never use etc etc)

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by sps16
i guess your prove them wrong when they say that the pen is mightier then the sword

I just tell them I can use their IP to find out where they live and if I get ripped off I'm going on a "spree"


It seems to be working fine

[Steelrat]

Hitech-Thanks for the support. NorCal all the way

Roguefactor-I havent done much trading here, but I spend 10+ hours a day dealing with fraud, so I think I have the credentials to talk about it.

I never said that feedback is worthless. In fact, if you actually READ my posts, I state "About feedback, it can be a good gauge of a person's honesty." But its not a PERFECT indicator. Even you must admit that. So its up to the buyer to decide what kind of chance they are willing to take. Someone who has 100 positive feedback posts is probably going to deal honestly, but there is still a chance, however small, that they might not. JAM had good feedback (thats MIA), and he has failed to live up to his obligations (unless something bad has happened, in which case I apologize in advance).

This thread is intended to provide advice on how to avoid being the victim of fraud. Relying on feedback is definately not a foolproof way to protect yourself from fraud. Again, I have seen incidents on here and PBnation where people with good feedback ended up ripping someone off. Its the exception, rather than the rule, but it happens.

Look at what GTRSI posted:

my new rule is that I only deal with folks that I can drive to on a weekend. and Yes I have threatened to show up at there place a few times.

This is the end result of fraud. As fraud increases, so will people's reluctance to use AO as a place of trade. There are TENS of THOUSANDS of people who do nothing but sit around all day thinking of ways to scam people. And this is a ripe target. Look at the people sending $1000s of dollars for Xmags, and getting nothing in return. Sure, a saavy buyer would have seen through that scam, but not everyone has the experience to recognize it. And that is partly what this thread is for. If we can teach people how to avoid being victims, we can maintain the viability of AO as a place of trade.

[Steelrat]

Unfortunately, I have to take GTRSI at his word. Maybe he has modified his policies since he dealt with you, or you have developed a good enough reputation that you have become the exception to the rule.

I do not remember what I put in the original thread, as I deleted it. However, I am still not a huge fan of feedback, and I make no attempts to conceal that. Feedback is okay if im buying a $20 item, but for me, any large purchases require more protection.

Note that I maintain a feedback thread, as some people do like to use them when making trades/purchases.

[cockermongol]

Let's say I send $1000 to a guy in Arizona for a new Xmag. Then he doesn't send the Xmag and keeps the money...

Couldn't I just take him to small claim's court?

[Steelrat]

Sure, as long as you are willing to go to Arizona, and as long as you can identify who it really is. And you'll need good documentation, because documentation is king.

This is why an escrow service is well worth the money.