3.0 Software question: Shot buffering = bps increase?!

[Bolter]

I'm sure it'll be available for all soon enough!!

Man its quick......

[joker4hire]

Originally posted by Bolter
We have it on our X-mags (it arrived at John Sosta's last Thursday) and my god it is a lot quicker!!! I mean I am pretty fast on the trigger probably 15 ish bps, but this thing is cool as you like. Its like whatever you put the gun on, say 20bps, it will shoot 20bps constant (as long as you walk it) until you let go of the trigger.

I have never shot a gun like it. Get it. Get it NOW!!!!!

I think this is why AGD has such a "cult" following. They continue to improve their equipment WITHOUT having to buy a whole new marker.... well.. if what Bolter says is true.

I think I am going to try and find an emag for sale

[Miscue]

/me wonders if it's the higher bps cap more so than the shot buffering that is getting these results...

Anyone compare an XMag at same bps cap to the new 3.0?

[yagrmiestr]

Originally posted by Miscue
/me wonders if it's the higher bps cap more so than the shot buffering that is getting these results...

Anyone compare an XMag at same bps cap to the new 3.0?

I have my emag set at 20bps and I think it is part of it. Doesn't seem to exhibit as many (actually if any) skipped shots as everyone is talking about. At 20bps the marker cycles in 50ms, at 16bps it's about 63ms. So if you can release and pull the trigger in less time than that you will miss a shot. I'd like to get a part number on the HES sensor so I can see how much hysterisis it has. I wonder if going to a linear HES sensor and doing debounce in software would make the trigger more sensitive.

[Jack & Coke]

Of all the guns considered "fastest" and "easiest" to walk, the Matrix and The Timmy use the same type of mechanical micro switch.

Are micros switches better than HE sensors for this particular type of application (i.e. activating paintball guns at HIGH ROF) ?

Although HE sensors do not wear out over time due to physical friction, are they as fast as physical micro switches with regard to on/off cycling times?

I have no idea... just throwing the question out there...

[Evil Bob]

I have to agree with Miscue on this, in both the 1.37 (emag) and the 2.4 (xmag) firmware, setting the top BPS seems to affect this.

On my emag, I can hit the software limit of 16 walking, but I need to concentrate on keeping a steady rhythm at a specific rate or I get skips in the beat. Fortunately, I've been shooting it long enough for it to not really be an issue. On my son's xmag when set to 24 bps, I can walk the crap out of the trigger easily without skipping a beat, it doesn't start skipping until I set the bps below 16 and fire at my normal rhythm, at which point the skipping appears. That sounds like it's pretty clear what is happening, when setting it to a lower shot rate we're losing the odd shot by catching the circuit mid cycle.

I believe the shot buffering will cure this problem.

-Evil Bob

[Miscue]

I have a question...

What problem does shot-buffering fix when your bps cap is set really high?

I know that the idea is... you can pull the trigger twice within one shot window. Now... how small is this window? 25ms? Because, if it's a small value like 25ms... that would mean you would need to shoot two shots at 40bps.

How often can you shoot at 40bps, or whatever x bps it happens to be, in one second? Sustained across several seconds? You'd have to do it quite frequently to produce a noticeable ROF increase. I have a hard time understanding the feasibility of this.

I'm just trying to have a clearer understanding of what problem shot-buffering is supposed to fix... and have to wonder if the best thing about 3.0 is the higher bps cap. I have a feeling that the higher you set the max bps, the less effect buffering has... until it eventually becomes moot once you pass some threshold.

The chip is 10MIPS/MHz afterall...

[Jack & Coke]

Shot buffering = no more skipped shots

While walking the trigger, it is EASY have a situation where you've released the trigger with one finger, and have the second finger strike the trigger at just the time in order to produce a 40 bps rate (back-to-back shots).

WITH A HIGH ROF + NO BUFFERING

The gun WILL NOT shoot the second shot and will result in a SKIPPED shot. Since I've tested and shown the max bolt cycle speed of the X-Valve to be around 32-35 cps, I think the gun will not be ready to fire and the window will be missed.

WITH ANY ROF + BUFFERING

The gun WILL shoot the second shot and will NOT result in a skipped shot.

[Miscue]

I've heard this explanation several times... and was aware of it before I put up my last post, but I do not know whether to throw in on top of the stack of paintball myths, or if it can be verified.

Has anyone actually recorded in some way, the physical act of pulling a trigger, letting it go, and pulling it again at ~32 bps? Now, how often can they do this per second? How often can they do this for a particular duration? How many people can do this?

Also, does anyone know how long it takes for a trigger to return on it's own once released?

[Bolter]

I don't know about all this technical stuff, but believe me it is very quick. I was very dubious before installation of the software (the day b4 a tournie!!) but it seemed like after the software was added, it was only then that I realised how many shots I must have been missing before.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Bolter


...it seemed like after the software was added, it was only then that I realised how many shots I must have been missing before...

WOW!

Great feed back!

This is certainly encouraging for those of us puzzled at why it's difficult to shoot the EMAG as fast consistantly as a Timmy or Matrix.

[FreshmanBob]

The old nelson boards for the viking had the same problem. They were capped at 13 but before the equalizer boards I remember barely being able to hit 6 or 7 consistantly. Just for old times sakes I'll throw in my explanation.

In the 2.4 e mag software and nelson boarded vikings there is a certain time after you pull the trigger in which new pulls will be lost.

For example, say your gun is set to 10 bps. You pull the trigger once, then once more but there is a gap between the pulls less than 1/10th of a second (100 ms). Lets say you pull in 1/11th of a second (90 ms) The board doesn't let the pull fire another shot because that would be a higher ROF than 10 bps. That trigger pull is ignored so you have to pull the trigger again. Lets say there is another gap of 90 ms between the second and third pulls. That means the total gap between actual shots was 180 ms instead of 100 ms. That makes your total ROF much lower (5.55~ bps to be exact).

With shot buffering that trigger pull would be stored instead of ignored. That way, after 100 ms was up the gun would immediately cycle. If your pulling 15 a second then the gun will shot 10 a second, saving trigger pulls instead of ignoring them all.

So yes, shot buffering will make a big difference.