Top 3 "thing" that are detrimental to paintball.

[jayloo]

ANYONE who refers to....
paintballs as BULLETS,
face masks as HELMETS and
markers or even guns as GATS.

If u'r gonna play know what thae equipment is actually named for safety sake.

[adam shannon]

Originally posted by elpimpo


id like to say stfu you guys who preach this crap are a bunch of freaking rec ballers who dont even know what tourney ball is. its going to happen. every sport people cheat. you dont get all but hurt when somebody holds in football and a reff doesnt catch it. players get pennalized in paintball for cheating as well as any other sport. so just shut up

your a 12 yo wiper arent you?

[elpimpo]

actually im 16 and ive wiped maybe twice. i believe its not that big of a dea. do i get mad when people wipe against me? yes but its going to happen. its the way it is and theres no way to stop. no matter what sport your in if theres a way to cheat its going to happen so ive learned to deal with it. i also think that if theres money on the line and you pay a lot to play the event its going to make it happen even more. i just wish you guys would quit complaining about something that is going to hapen no matter what just so you can say that you dont like it.

[cphilip]

elpimpo... don't call people names.

And don't wipe or tolerate it. Giving in to it is to surrender the sport to hooligans. You do not HAVE to tolerate it and you do not have to be part of the problem. It's not something that is acceptable or something you have to accept. If you did it once then stop. You know its wrong. You can continue to find it disgusting and continue to speak out against it. So if you want to be in this sport do not try and justify it. It's not justifiable. It's dispicable and it's not something anyone should try and defend. Just cause everyone does it does not make it right. Period. End of discussion.

[Carbon]

i ask again:

So what is it that were talkin about when we talk about tourny players? Straight questions elpimpo...no disrespect.

-Do you wipe when you play tourney?

-Do you consider yourself a cheater?

-If you can please elaborate, on how as a tourney player you would, if possible elimniate/ drasticaly reduce cheating.

So as a tourneyplayer fill us rec ballers in: on what we dont know about regarding/playing tourneys. Stuff about playing the "grey area" The whole, "its the reffs responsibility to call the hit". And the whole everybodys doing it axiom.

And once agin im not pickin on ya, or dissing. I just wan to know what your whole prespective is on this whole matter, hope fully without people flaming ya.

word.

...or should i just let age be the excuse. Anyway... there is "dealing with it" and there is becoming part of the problem.

[Gman63]

Just to chime in my 2 cents worth. I currently ref at my local field and play on there scenario team. I have been qualified and worked as a head umpire in Division 1 Collegate soccer and Vollyball and even ref'd open pro beach vollyball. I have participated in numerous sports over the years with paintball being one of them. Yes there is cheating in all sports both amature and professional. The penalties for cheating is stiff and enforced when caught. When I rec-ball at my local field I let all of the experienced players know up front that I will not tolerate any intimidating tactics, play or language toward any new players. I also will not allow it from the newbs either. If I catch you cheating, first time its a one for one pull. If I catch you a second time you get about a one hour break. Third times a charm, your gone for the day. Get in my face or any other refs face, you will not be allowed back on the property. If you feel that it is your constitutional right to use profanity at the field, it is my right to ask you to leave with no refund because you are on private property and your rights are now limited to what the field and property owner allows. I am not talking about the occasional word here or there but a constant use of the verbage at loud levels dureing play. It should not be tolerated at all. If a player tells me to check his *POOF*ing hopper I will inform that player to watch his mouth and let them know another comment like that directed toward me or another ref will get them eliminated and some time to sit and watch.
Problems with the sport are mainly around people who play at the local tournys and think there Gods on the field and that no body but a pro could possibly take them out. First off, check your ego and attitude at the gate, its not needed at a rec-game or torny thats are not professional. Second dont light new plays who have rental gear up every game with 20+ balls and then say sorry afterword. If they get shot up enough they will not come back. Run enough new players off or send little johnny off home with thirty or forty welts and his mom and dad are not going to allow him to play anymore and it hurts everyone. Lastly, limit the amount of paint a player can shoot in a game. Go ahead and flame me for it I dont care. I play woods ball and scenario ball mainly because I dont like playing in an enviroment where people get there big thrill off of 1 case, 1 kill. In speedball now days so much paint is getting thrown the average player cant afford to play even at 30-40 dollars a case. Make players at the lower levels play to be more accurate with their equipment. You do not have to be that good to spray a case of paint down field and eventually get one out of 2000 to hit something, 1 out of 200 or 300 would give you a much better percentage. (Steps off of soap box) Thanks

[DiRTyBuNNy]

One of the things that irks me about the paintball industry is that it focuses too much on the tourney aspect of the game even though statistics show that only 2-3% of players annually attend a tournament. Oh well..what can I say?

[Bolter]

not meaning to offend anyone at all but I hate the Pro paintballer way of if we are playing a game of paintball we have goggles on. Fair enough right, but when you do things like chrono it doesn't seem to matter if goggles are on or off. When you get ready for game on and everyone has there goggles on and are firing a couple of shots, there is always that immune referee with his goggles on the top of his head. I have read countless magazines, played at many top end tournies and have seen lots of websites where I have witnessed this. I remember an Avalanche player (when Chris Lasagne played for em) coming to chrono at a millenium event and everyone had goggles on and a barrel sock on, and he had neither and walked up to the chrono and did his thing. Lots of people started saying "hey....goggles on!" and he turned and shouted "where's the sign? I don't see no bloody sign"

not sure he got our point. It'll just take one incident.

[elpimpo]

lasoyas a homo (lasagne thats priceless)

[Xerces]

no ones said SP?

[Richter]

Top 3 "things" that are detrimental to paintball and its proliferation.
all the ones carbon said and these:

1. the lack of good press: it always seems to be bad press that gets into the media about our sport.

2. Industry support for the tourney/cheating culture that is compitition paintball or the tourney/cheating culture for that matter.

it is this hoodlumism that creates an effect that won't make us mainstream, will eventually stagnate the sport, and is what trickles down to the overshooting and hoodlumism you see on the local level.

as for industry support:

I hate that picture in the magazine of chris lasoya in the national pb advetisements with about 20 hellfire hits and him filling a pod.
So i have no respect for National/Draxxus

I hate the advertisments for evil paintball promoting this tourney/cheating culture.
So i have no respect for PMI/Evil

Does anyone remember when ADG and WGP banned the NPPL for year in sponsorship support because of game fixing in the finals? i think i remember it was between the Team X-treme and Fusion ( i might be mistaken). They didn't leave forever though, or try to promote change ( maybe they did try to promote change; i don't know)

3. The lack of really enforceable rules that don't tolerate cheating and the lack of responsiblity at the promoter level. The rules are really design with cheating in mind. If you willfull try to defraud another team it is just a penalty. Most any sport, where you pay an entry fee to win big prizes or cash, there are punishments for defrauding activity; Examples: banning for life or legal prosecution for such fraudulent activity. Look in most southern states: most have state laws that if you are cheating in big money bass fishing tournament you go to jail!

Yes i have been on the national tourney scene before so i have seen it first hand.

I was thinking about trying to start a field or just being a local event promoter but even the big two distributers I could not trust to do business with. i guess i could go with another paint company and put in my enforceable rules...

[Carbon]

2. Industry support for the tourney/cheating culture that is compitition paintball or the tourney/cheating culture for that matter.

Thats an interesting point. An average rec type person look at these glam/glory pics, and most of them dont read between the lines, or even know those lines exist.

Oh yeah i think you should push for the promotion of that tourney. Enforce your rules and make a statement. Ya may not change the culture overnight, but grass-roots it the way to go. And i think havin a rep for running sparklin clean tournies, is a great one to have.

thnx for yer input.

[Severe]

I think everyone is missing the point. If you're talking about detrimental and proliferation of paintball, then you're talking about rec ball.

After all, that is essentially where EVERYONE starts. gtrsi and Dirtybunny are the two people I see who are closest to really answering the question here.

Anyway, here's my three answers.

1) Mismanaged fields. Whether it's woods or speedball, if the management/refs don't do their very best to provide good equipment and a playing experience, then first time players will not become return players. I could write a small book on this topic alone. Just understand that I think this includes markers, masks, fields and staff.

2) The portrayal of paintball as a violent sport. Yes, we use guns...call them markers if you want, but they are guns. However, the industry does very little to advertise the safety record of pb. That does NOT mean we have to do away with the whole para-military image...we can embrace that and still promote safety.

3) Trying to prematurely move paintball to TV. Paintball is not ready. Say what you want, but it is not. Let it have the niche shows on OLN and such, but keep it away from primetime.

I hardly think the sport/industry is suffering. In fact, I think it's enjoying explosive growth. But what potential players need are good safe facilities in which they can go play.

[GoatBoy]

I don't really know where to start. On a pragmatic level, I'm with Severe on this one.

As I've said in other posts, recball is the most visible arm of our sport, not tournament.

Therefore the most bang for the buck is to fix things at the recball level. So, I totally agree with #1.

#2, I agree again, and I'd like to add that the marketing geniuses have something to do with it. "EXTREME RAGE!"
"INTIMIDATOR!" A quick perusal through the naming conventions of our industry would indicate that we seek to attract the more emotionally disturbed segment of our society. That is one clear divergence from the gun industry that paintball has taken. Anyone remember Dogma? "We call this one the 'fecalator'." I guess I'm just venting a personal pet peeve here. I just think the marketing used is as immature as, well...

... the children that blow the money on these products.


Which kind of leads me into an area which I'm sure will be controversial... But paintball just doesn't seem to be populated by the brightest of people. I hate to be elitist, but it's sort of the truth in my eyes. Look at these forums and see how many people just simply cannot read instructions or do a simple search. How many times do we have to answer the "CO2 on mags" question?

The trend bleeds into the running of the fields, and well, basically everything else in paintball. Fields and shops appear to be started up by people who have a real love of the sport, but have absolutely no idea how to run a business, or treat a customer, or understand basic high school physics in some cases. And I have to add, the ability to think in complete thoughts and compose complete sentences is sadly lacking in our little community.

There aren't really enough good people to go around in this community to counteract this trend.


So uhm... to put it bluntly... What's detrimental to paintball?


Too many morons.

[Carbon]

There aren't really enough good people to go around in this community to counteract this trend.So uhm... to put it bluntly... What's detrimental to paintball? Too many morons.

Interesting point, but id have to say if there are or were too many morons in this sport, i dont think paintball could have seen the succes it has now, or be where it is now. If morons were running the show paintball would of Darwined it self to the ground.

One of the greates ironies of paintball is the fact that it has not reached mainstream (primetime, X games), yet it is one of the most addictive and funnest activities you can do and encompasses such a large demographic.

I guess I'm just venting a personal pet peeve here. I just think the marketing used is as immature as, well...... the children that blow the money on these products.

I used to have a similar pet peve. What can i say, kids these days have more buying power, due largely from the parental units of course. I suppose not everybody can be a critical thinker, kids in the 14-17 yr old range, are kids.... They are young and impressionable. I guess im glad they arent playin with lawn darts.

I hate to be elitist, but it's sort of the truth in my eyes. Look at these forums and see how many people just simply cannot read instructions or do a simple search. How many times do we have to answer the "CO2 on mags" question?

Yeah it gets kinda annoying, simple fact is:

1)you can ignore the question, and possible let someody else answer the q's

2)Reply the the thread with a "use the search bar"...or while your on the reply page...

3)...tell him what the deal is with co2 and Mags. Wouldn't that solicit a more enlightened community vibe we all seek?

Word.