Annodizing voids warranties????

**FragTek** · 11-26-2003, 07:21 AM

Rogue brought this to my attention last night, and I was very surprised to hear it. But, I wasn't looking at the full spectrum of properties that are taken into play when you go to re-anodize something. After everything is factored in I could see where you could have some potential issues with spacing an alignment.

Thanks for your help Rogue, and thanks for this thread Pointman, I am sure that many many people will find this VERY helpful as they make the choice whether or not to ano their mags.

I have now chosen against anoing my E-Mag for this reason.

**pointm@n** · 11-26-2003, 07:57 AM

Does AGD sell ULE Bodies raw? If so, I might have to think about getting it one of those...

**FragTek** · 11-26-2003, 08:01 AM

Nope

I can check with Jon and see if he wants to hook me up with one, I'm sure it can't be that hard to get one. Lemme check for ya. Or Rogue could more than likely tell you.

**FragTek** · 11-26-2003, 09:52 AM

Yeah, I just got word back from Jon, he sells them but has none in stock.. see Rogue

**pointm@n** · 11-26-2003, 12:41 PM

Kewl, I'll keep you in mind Rogue for the body. I want to get things in place before I do this. I don't think getting the trigger frame annododized will affect tolerances. My only concern now is the Rail, and the body.

**FragTek** · 11-26-2003, 01:21 PM

The frame you are OK on... Same with battery housing and such. I guess its just rail and body that becomes the main problem.

**rpm07** · 11-26-2003, 03:34 PM

I re-annoed my Emag and it works fine as long as you dont touch the valve you are fine. As for warranties could some one please tell me what the big deal is. Think about it for a second how many people send in parts for it. There are not many things that could go wrong with a body or a rail that you would have to send it in for a new one, the valve yes but everything else no. As for anno changing the specs of a gun it could do it but the most you would have to do is get a new on-off pin.

**CoolHand** · 11-26-2003, 03:39 PM

The problem with getting any gun reanoed is the old ano is removed in an acid bath. This burns away the aluminum and opens up all the holes and takes metal off everything.

The main problem we have is that it opens up the threads. The biggest problem is the main washer that is threaded nto the body to stop the bolt. If the threads open up it is no longer centered properly and the bolt is not centered in the breach. Now you have big problems.

Reano at your own risk, we do not do that.

AGD

First off, ano stripper is a very strong BASE, not an acid. Also, the new strippers are very good at taking only the ano layer (aluminum oxide), and leaving the virgin aluminum alone.

If everything is done correctly, there should be absolutely no difference in dimensions before or after an ano job.

The only way you can open up the holes, or dissolve away virgin alum, is to use very strong base solutions not specifically designed for anodizing.

It is also very hard to build up an ano layer that is too thick. Once the entire part is covered, the resistance goes way up, and further ano buildup takes longer and longer and longer. Eventually the part just won't conduct electricity anymore, and the process halts all together.

The only ano operation that you let go that long is a military grade hardcote, which at the very thickest might end up being 0.001" tall. Now a paintball style ano will not be even half that tall. (0.005" or less)

Notice I said TALL. That's because ano grows out from the surface of the aluminum, making the part marginally larger. When you strip it off, you bring the part back to the same size it was before it was ano'ed the first time. Then you can reano it, and grow a whole new layer that ends up making the part exactly the same size it was before you changed the color.

Now I might buy the possiblity that reano could maybe cause an alignment issue with the body washer, but really, we're talking about a steel washer that sees cyclical loads inside an aluminum housing. WEAR will change the dimensions 10 times as much as a dozen reanodizings

I have seen the CAD files, and calling for tolerances of 0.0005" looks good, but lets be honest here, no one can hold that kind of tolerance in aluminum, and still sell the part for $150 (talking about a ULE body here, just for illustrative purposes). You will loose nearly that much metal just in finishing and deburring.

I'm not trying to say that AGD products aren't made to exacting standards, I just have trouble believing that they can hold tolerances down to half a thou, and even more trouble believing that those ridiculously close tolerances actually make any difference.

Especially having seen the things that people do to mags (abuse wise), and still have them work flawlessly. While that is a tribute to the inheirent robustness of the mag, it illustrates how much you can "open up" the tolerances and still have the marker function as designed.

Now, bring on the flames.

**Steelrat** · 11-26-2003, 03:48 PM

Actually, you made some convincing arguments. I think this is a VERY important discussion, as I know of people who want to reanno X-mags and SFLs. Now, (name of gun maker deleted) has the same no reanno policy. However, I called up (owner of the company), and he said they have that policy to discourage people from having their guns annoed by those shops set up in garages, you know, the ones with the chemicals kept in coolers.

(Owner of the company) told me that a quality anno shop would not harm their markers in any ways, and would not void the warranty. Im guessing that, like anything else, you can get results ranging from crap to great with annoes, depending on how much you invest and the quality of the job.

**rpm07** · 11-26-2003, 04:02 PM

I also remeber someone posting that a few of the Xmags in the last batch the anno was srewed up and they were going back to the anno to be fixed. So whats that tell ya

**rpm07** · 11-26-2003, 04:04 PM

Also like Steelrat pointed out Dont use a guy that does anno in his house use a company that annos paintball guns and know what they are doing

**pointm@n** · 11-26-2003, 05:57 PM

Thanks for posting everyone. You guys have brought up very valid arguments for each side. What I'm really hoping for is for someone at AGD to unequivocally say it voids the warranty or it doesn't. I'm sure many people have reannoed their guns without problems but what happens when they need AGD to tech thier guns. Will AGD turn them away? AGD Techs fix Micromags and I guess it's up to the Tech's discretion to fix it, but I doubt a tech will turn you away because your gun is pink instead of blue.

**cledford** · 11-26-2003, 06:27 PM

If I remember the lecture at the tech class correctly the max tolarance in the mag is one thousandth of an inch. Cphil can refresh my memory.

Furthermore - all of the alluminum bodies have a steel washer inside that will not take to the anno process very well at all. (read will get severely corroded) Some SFL owners have gotten theirs out - but it wasn't easy from what I heard.

The toughest thing to get in the raw would be the trigger frame IMHO. I've never seen them offered in the raw - other wise everything else can be had from Rogue or Tuna.

-Calvin

**SuiciDal Sn Y p ER** · 11-26-2003, 06:45 PM

I have had this question in my head before. I have contacted AGD and asked them if it was ok to reanodize a xmag. They told me that it is ok to reanodize the marker but didn't mention anything about a warranty.

Annodizing voids warranties????

Annodizing voids warranties????

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