Shunning Smart Parts

[LaW]

Originally posted by Gabriel


Smart Parts isn't being 'smart' by going in this direction, they are being greedy and detrimental to the sport. More over, they will never go after kingman because they legally cannot go after kingman. Kingman is a Taiwanese firm, and can avoid having to pay any of the fees to smart parts by simply no longer importing to america. American patents don't hold true any where but in America.

And tony's threads don't speak truth, they speak baby language.

How are they detrimental to the sport? Explain your statements man... Yup and the same holds true to WDP as well. I am fully aware of how patents work you dont have to tell me. I cannot use companies as examples? Fine then I will just use kingman as an example of a "bigger" company that wouldnt be worth going after... it doesnt have to be kingman

Baby language? The truth is that Dynasty shooting shockers now will appeal to younger kids getting into the sport because Dynasty is a "top" team. Thats what sells markers and if your too blind to see that then... well. Not to mention smart parts is built on lots of hype for everything. I see impulses everywhere I go. I see more people going out and buying smart parts markers. The majority of people against smart parts are all these small loyal groups of people that shoot markers from some of these "smaller" companies. The shocker will sell and when the nerve is around that will sell well also. Quality doesnt have to be top notch when there is enough people willing to still buy the product.

And once again I am not some kind of SP fanboy so I dont need to hear that again.

[Xyxyll]

SP will make lots of money and has Dynasty on their payroll, but I don't think that these actions are going to make people from outside the sport flock to play paintball. Sure, younger players will look up and see Dynasty playing with 2k3 shockers and want one, but what's the difference from previous years when younger players looked up and saw Dynasty playing with Angels?

If SP wins any case against one of these smaller companies, they WILL go after the bigger companies because they will have the case precident. Kingman and WDP may simply have to give up exporting to the US, but that is still a huge burden on both companies. I would say the US has the highest population of players and the highest potential population of future players.

With the paintball industry growing (I'm talking seperate of this SP stuff right now), television commercials, television shows, and movies are all going to become more common. It is just poor coincidence that SP will likely be at the top when all this hits the bigtime.

SP has NO ethical right to do any of that and you know it! They just "happened" to receive a patent that they should have no claim over.

[LaW]

Originally posted by Xyxyll
SP will make lots of money and has Dynasty on their payroll, but I don't think that these actions are going to make people from outside the sport flock to play paintball. Sure, younger players will look up and see Dynasty playing with 2k3 shockers and want one, but what's the difference from previous years when younger players looked up and saw Dynasty playing with Angels?

If SP wins any case against one of these smaller companies, they WILL go after the bigger companies because they will have the case precident. Kingman and WDP may simply have to give up exporting to the US, but that is still a huge burden on both companies. I would say the US has the highest population of players and the highest potential population of future players.

With the paintball industry growing (I'm talking seperate of this SP stuff right now), television commercials, television shows, and movies are all going to become more common. It is just poor coincidence that SP will likely be at the top when all this hits the bigtime.

SP has NO ethical right to do any of that and you know it! They just "happened" to receive a patent that they should have no claim over.

Ah yes lets talk eithics, which are not really defined ANYWHERE! That is your personal "unethical" reasoning but hey I am not buying it. My opinion is that Smart Parts will be one of the top dogs in the business, but they will not take over the paintball industry to the extent that some people fear. Now in the years to come, I turn out to be completely wrong I take back everything I say.

Everything else you said went out the window when you made that last comment. Why do they have no claim over it? They were smart enough to patent something back in 96 or whenver. I dont know if I completely agree with the additions made to that patent later on but eh... Like I said before lets just go into an internet opinion war! We will never convince each other! So stop posting because you have NO ethical right to do so haha see how silly that sounds?

[Xyxyll]

Originally posted by LaW



Ah yes lets talk eithics, which are not really defined ANYWHERE! That is your personal "unethical" reasoning but hey I am not buying it. My opinion is that Smart Parts will be one of the top dogs in the business, but they will not take over the paintball industry to the extent that some people fear. Now in the years to come, I turn out to be completely wrong I take back everything I say.

Everything else you said went out the window when you made that last comment. Why do they have no claim over it? They were smart enough to patent something back in 96 or whenver. I dont know if I completely agree with the additions made to that patent later on but eh... Like I said before lets just go into an internet opinion war! We will never convince each other! So stop posting because you have NO ethical right to do so haha see how silly that sounds?

If someone were ripping off Smart Parts' Shocker design, I'd say "Go Smart Parts, kick their ***." Much like I feel about the Icon markers and Timmy clones. Smart Parts patented the shocker design in '96 or whenever. I'm not saying anything in the likes of Smart Parts shouldn't own the patent to their Shocker. What I object to (which I thought was obvious), is the unreasonable extension to the patent.

Smart Parts may have been the first company to mass-produce and market an electronic marker, but there is previous art of paint-capsule electronic shooters that outdates the Shocker. Smart Parts executives, having extensive experience in the patent industry, claimed that the right to ALL electronic markers was rightfully theirs.

First off, they weren't the first. Second, look at AGD and WGP. Both companies gave up the right to patent their revolutionary inventions in order to let the technology help the industry grow. Now Smart Parts simply watched electronic markers sprout up every which direction and then when SP felt that the peak was now, SP scandalously extended their patent and accused Kingman, ICD, WDP, AGD, AKA, and more of patent infringement. Their extension was far too broad and should not have been approved in the first place.

I feel sorry for all those companies being sued right now for violating a patent that hadn't even been in existance until SP broadened its patent.

[Gabriel]

verdammt man! Smart parts is being detrimental to the industry by creating a monopoly. Please tell me you can understand that.

Also, SP patented the Shocker in '96. That is NOT what this thread is about. This thread is about the RECENT extension on that patent to not only include the Shocker, but ANY fully assembled marker that even THINKS of using any type of selinoid and electrical switch to fire the paintball, effectively creating a monopoly (there's that word again) over high-end paintball guns. THAT is the problem, the extension. So now that you actually know what we are talking about, maybe you can come up with a reasonable argument.

Gabe

P.S.
Merry Christmas to all from Germany!

[LaW]

I know exactly what you are all talking about. Creating a monopoly right now... I dont think so. If they go further then I expect them to go then yeah a monopoly which is illegal anyway.

All my comments above remain the same. Dont sit here and try to "teach" me on all these things that I ALREADY know.

[Gabriel]

legally it wouldnt be a monopoly, because other guns would still be being produced, just not electro guns. that is the difference. but practicallity says it would make a 'hihg-end' monopoly for tourney players. Even if they werent trying bankrupt the companies, which is my personal belief, they still could sue the hell out of them and make them pay roalities. Not only that, but the other companies would have to pay a lump sum up front to even have the 'privilege' to produce an electronic marker. So theortically, they could sue the companies so much that one would have to choose from, say a $500 BKO or a $450 Impulse. Which would you get? My point exactly.

And dont say we, the consumers, wouldnt see the effect. If they 'licensed' the idea to a company for $100,000,000 (which they could very well do), where will that come from? And then, if they made that company pay, say $25 or $50 for royalties for every electro marker they made, where will that come from as well? Us.

This is a totally legal move. That is why it is not legally considered a monopoly. But it is a practical monopoly that is, drum roll please, DETRIMENTAL TO THE SPORT.

Thank you for your time

[sneakyhacker420]

everyone needs to shut up and quit whining

this exploded into a huge dilemma becuase so many people never understood the true facts about what was, and still is going on


its ignorant people like you that just stoke the fire up again, igniting a blaze, letting the smoke travel among the internet, alarming other people from other forums about your faulty crap


there is no way SP is ever going to be shunned from any field, game, or tourney

they make quality producs, and will continute to make quality products


sure, i may not like their ideas, but hell, i'll but whatever i want from them

why?

simply because i do not like what they are doing does not mean that i don't like their products


as long as people like you continute to whine about a whole story that you have not even begun to understand and just follow the path of others, i will go against the grain, letting this whole thing take its own course, and not try to take any action against it, because a few people on internet forums won't make them change their mind

and just for your information, SP revolutionized the paintball world and helped make it become what it is today

the shocker was the first electronic paintball gun ever - would the E-Mag exist if it werent for SP, no. timmy?... no..., matrix?... no..., angel?... no.

so just shut up, and read up - then come back with a reasonable answer

[Xyxyll]

Wow... since when has sitting back and doing nothing solved ANYTHING! Smart Parts is doing something that nobody but Smart Parts likes (Even you said you don't like it!). There are thousands of players viewing these boards. Many of these viewers have A LOT of influence over their local paintball community. I can say that I do! It doesn't matter how good SOME of their products are (The only things they make that I feel are decent are the Max-Flow (of which I have two) and the progressive), Smart Parts has enraged so many people. Now why would we just sit back and watch them hurt our precious companies. I would HATE to see AKA, AGD, and WDP get hurt. That is why I am collecting $ for the fight against Smart Parts. I am definitely not alone either. Wow, imagine if every enraged paintball player donated a dollar to the defending company. It definitely wouldn't be pocket change... Now, I wish you would take your own advice and take a look at the whole picture!

[AGD]

The Shocker was not the first electronic gun ever, not by a long shot.

AGD

[sneakyhacker420]

ok... then my field tech was wrong

[doc_Zox]

If anyone has ever watched the lawyers of the species divide a clients assets into digestable chunks and proceed to exanguinate all bank accounts, you will appreciate the reason why a settlement is sometimes the only option.

Well, SPs founders are patent lawyers.

Isn't one of the people at Smart Parts a patent attorney?

-Yes. According to this document from the FTC, two individuals currently associated with Smart Parts were involved in an "invention submission" business, which the Federal Trade Commission shut down for "deceptive practices"

So an SP employee who intimately understands the patent system acts as self council and send out letters to a targeted manufacturer. This company hires a lawyer who is payed to repond to every shot across the bow. Any Lawsuit Internet war chest is quickly depleted.

here is a repository of SP lawsuit data:

http://www.icedillusions.com/Anti-SP.html

NPS has signed an agreement with SP:

http://www.npbs.com/html/pr_082203.asp

I kinda doubt you are going to buy any counter opinion advertisement space in their "magazine"

So "Dynasty" is now a SP team...

It might make the magazines if another team shunned them at a major event.

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
everyone needs to shut up and quit whining

this exploded into a huge dilemma becuase so many people never understood the true facts about what was, and still is going on


its ignorant people like you that just stoke the fire up again, igniting a blaze, letting the smoke travel among the internet alarming other people from other forums about your faulty crap


there is no way SP is ever going to be shunned from any field, game, or tourney

they make quality producs, and will continute to make quality products


sure, i may not like their ideas, but hell, i'll but whatever i want from them

why?

simply because i do not like what they are doing does not mean that i don't like their products


as long as people like you continute to whine about a whole story that you have not even begun to understand and just follow the path of others, i will go against the grain, letting this whole thing take its own course, and not try to take any action against it, because a few people on internet forums won't make them change their mind

and just for your information, SP revolutionized the paintball world and helped make it become what it is today

the shocker was the first electronic paintball gun ever - would the E-Mag exist if it werent for SP, no. timmy?... no..., matrix?... no..., angel?... no.

so just shut up, and read up - then come back with a reasonable answer

I dont know what was the first electro gun, but it wasnt the shocker. Either way, would it be soooo bad without electro guns on the field? C'mon now.

And was my answer unreasonable? No. I would say, seeing as you based your entire answer on your field tech's 'expertise' that you should first 'shut up and read up' and then 'come back with a reasonable answer'.

Gabe

[LaW]

Originally posted by Gabriel


I dont know what was the first electro gun, but it wasnt the shocker. Either way, would it be soooo bad without electro guns on the field? C'mon now.

And was my answer unreasonable? No. I would say, seeing as you based your entire answer on your field tech's 'expertise' that you should first 'shut up and read up' and then 'come back with a reasonable answer'.

Gabe

The field that he plays at isnt that great either The field "techs" there dont know much about anything. Just thought I would say that since I know what field he is talking about.

I think i'm done discussing this whole SP thing and will just sit back and see how it plays out. I see it happening one way, others see it differently ... we will all know for sure in the next year or two.

[DeeEight]

Originally posted by AGD
The Shocker was not the first electronic gun ever, not by a long shot.

AGD

Heck, if you look thru when patents were filed in the US patent system alone, there was one filed for an electronic grip frame conversion to fit tippmann blowbacks a good year before the first PVI Shocker appeared. The fact that our lord and saviour Tom knows there were electronic paintball guns before the shocker pretty much means that SP ain't gonna come knocking at the company doors with a lawsuit anytime soon (nor at BE's doors since K2 can afford some GOOOD lawyers).

As I recall the history, the BE Rainmaker was a production gun selling at walmarts while PVI was still sorting the bugs out of the shocker (before SP walked away with the design much to the annoyance to the owner of PVI). Also WDP was independantly developing the Angel in the UK even before that (which is why BE was initially looking to distribute angels in north america and then went its own route with the rainmaker, which is essentially an electronic vector).