Is our sport doomed?

[TheMadSplatter]

Are there others out there who have heard about or seen the cheating being allowed to happen at some of the "larger and more prestigious" tournaments? Yes - allowed to happen. Jeeez! And the language. Woah! Lucky my mother doesn't go to these things. And then there are the physical confrontations. Is this hockey? Do we now need gloves to throw down? WHAT'S UP? (Ever see what happens to a professional soccer player if he argues with a ref?)

Has there ever been talk of a national organization to monitor and regulate tourneys and reffing? Just like major league sports, and inter-collegiate & high school games, perhaps we need help keeping an eye on things so cheating becomes a thing of the past. Or can we do it ourselves? Any thoughts or comments?

[Monsta]

I never seen anything at a tourney you described. But if that does happen then take it to the MAN. I'm sure he'll do something about it. If anyone plays at a field like this you should really really think about what you can do. Basically not only will telling your fields refs/Managers help..but it will also help if you tell that Cheater next time you'll hit him 9 times instead of 2. hehe...last part was a joke..just pissed that **** happens.

[TheMadSplatter]

For those watching closely, this happened as recently as last week at Atlantic City.

[Maghog]

My friends returned from Atlantic City with a very sour taste in their mouth. They said that there was blatant wiping by the refs, helping only their friends. The players were even audacious enough to thank the refs afterwards!!!
What is going on?
There's a post in Deep Blue asking if paintball is about winning. The NPPL definitely is not. It's about the connections you have and the rigging of games so certain teams stay on top.
This is CHEATING!!!
The sad thing is that this is a well known fact. Nobody is saying or doing anything about it.
The question to ask is why people are doing this?
Do these people actually feel like winners, or even champions after they know that they've cheated?
It's sad, and it's also very disturbing. I hope that as the WPF matures, it will find the spot as a reliable and trustworthy organisation.
The NPPL is beyond repair. It's so imbedded with corruption that it nearly competes with some of the political branches of our government.
I have been to tournaments that I felt were fairly judged. Having a shot at winning it all is what gets my blood pumping. I can't understand why teams who know they have no chance of overcoming the pre-negotiated final standings still go to these events.
It's time for us as players to reach out for fairness and fun.
I honestly don't believe that the "pro" teams would be where they are if they were not able to cheat like they do.
What's more, kids look up to them so what do they do? They curse, throw their guns, fight and do just about anything else to set as bad an example as is possible.
Hello!!!! Some of us are really sick of this and want to see a change happen.
What's it gonna take?
Dan@Triggernomics

[shartley]

[PsychoMag]

I am involved with the local tourney scene, and although, I will not allow cheating from my team, there is alot of it going on. I guess that with friends that are refs, who needs skill.

In our last tourney, there was a HOTT girl playin, and I saw her get gogged, she ducked, the ref came over to paintcheck her(Idont know why, it was an obvious hit by NPPL) a minute later, the ref left, and she popped back up from the bunker, clean faced, and the team went on to win that game. I think that the cheating was the turning point in the game. The opposing team was working hard against an Amateur A team, and when she was back, they seem to have given up...if she were out, i think that they would have easily won the game, simply on the good offense they were playing. They ended up discouraged and fell.

My team does not condone any of this cheating. If one of my guys ever wiped, they are done. and the FULL points would be given to the opposing team, as my standard of good sportsmanship will show.

[snowman]

I agree

I have seen this happen many times before, even during rec play! Why cheat in rec play, or argue with a ref for that matter. 5 minutes later you're playing again.

One of the problems is that there isn't a national referee orgaization and not one standard. Whatever tournament field hosts, ususally provide their own refs. The only good ref that I have seen is Bill Cookston from Challenge Park. He trains other refs and has been recognized across the country as the best head ref.

I've been involved in putting together a tournament and to tell you the truth, it would be expensive to hire refs from a national organization. However, if there was one recognized org, that may help everything.

[Hasty8]

Okay. What I am about to say will most likely ruffle a few feathers so I'll apologize right from the start.

I'm sorry if I offend you. It is not intended.

Now that that is out of the way on to my reply. I have read this thread and few others like it and have come to one conclusion. There are a lot of whiners here and very few doers. Again, I am not intentionally trying to flame anyone. I feel for you. While I have been to a tournament, either as a participant or a spectator, I have been to several big games and have been subject to bad reffing. And if I had the time or the desire to I would attempt to make some changes.

First step towards dealing with bad reffing? Get them on tape. Next time you go to a tournament as a spectator bring along a tape recorder, preferabbly a small one and a video camera, some pens and a few note pads. Before the tournament starts try to get in contact with who ever is organizsing it and tell them you are from your local paper and yada, yada, yada. Try to get a press pass if they have them.

Whether or not you get them is immaterial. As the tournament progresses interview various refs as thought you were a real reporter. Then get some footage of them on how they conduct themsleves on the field. If you get good footage of blatant rule violation immediately take the tape to the head ref if there is one there. If not then save it. When you get home, document you tape and make copies along with a well written story about what you saw. Send them to every paintball magazine that you know of. I am sure someone will print it.

My point is this. One, you can cry foul as much as you want but with out evidence to back it up no one will listen to you and nothing says loving like video tape.

Two. Don't cry so much. If all you do is whine and moan and do not do a thing to change things, then in my book you shouldn't whine and moan.

Again, I truly hope I didn't offend anyone. If I did it was unintentional and I apologize for such.

[FaSSt]

Another problem with cheating - intentional overshooting

Paintball has always been a grassroots sport, so cheating during tournament play, while relevant, is only part of the problem.

I would argue that cheating during rec ball causes at least an equal amount of problems. Why?

If left as it is, it seriously detracts from the enjoyment of the game. We play to relax and have fun, not to spend the day mad at some people who are jerks.

On the other hand, if we apply the old remedy of overshooting wipers, then newbies get scared and tempers flare. Yes, in smaller, more intimate groups this may be a partial answer, but it is not in those kind of groups that wiping is normally problem.

The last issue is that cheating of any kind brings dishonor into the situation, and seems to breed other forms of unfair and unsafe conduct, such as shooting hot, etc.

[Nitroduck]

Cheating happens in all sports, all the stuff you described happens in all sports, but in lower quanities.

I've been to 4 tourneys so far , 1 was road 2 aruba , 1 was ZAP , 2 others were locals.


There's cheating on all levels , but as long as you have good refs , cheating is VERY low ( in my case of road 2 aruba , i can only think of 1 guy doing something questionable the whole time )

[TheMadSplatter]

In answer to 'Shartley' above, (from NH, eh? cool). Where I am (Rogue Paintball in Standish, Maine) has a ref rating system. All our refs have to take the state's league training course, and then they have to work their ways up to levels of more responsibility. Each ref is observed working games and then critiqued. Since we believe (as most people do) that there is no room for cheating in this sport, our ref's are trained as such. Any 'deviation' from this idea is questioned.

What's good up here is that all of our League fields believe the same thing about playing unfairly. It's not tolerated at all. Our League is right now developing a tournament series circuit for next season, and believe it or not, the very first lines of the proposed rules is: "Advertised and promoted as an honest tournament, with emphasis on being a well refereed/cheating-free series. (Cheating is no longer "part of the game.")" I loved seeing that!

Snowman: We're hoping that our League - in its teaching of rec.ball ref's as well as tourney ref's will succeed in being a recognized organization able to supply the ref's fields need. We're working on a "travel team" of ref's that can run around the state and help with tourneys.

Hasty8 - Hopefully, we and our fellow-League fields will be called "doers" regarding this stuff. We have a League Board of Directors meeting tomorrow night at one of our member fields and this is a hot topic of discussion. ((Imagine the owners of 10 different paintball fields, along with perhaps 6 or 7 different team captains, all sitting around the same [large!] table!! And talking. And working together. We do this every month.))

Our shop owner has suggested a way to deal with cheaters ... he's going to try placing "plain-clothed" ref's in the stands with 2-way radios to watch the action from the outside. If this amounts to over-doing the reffing thing, then he'll stop the activity. But imagine if one or two cheaters are tapped on the shoulder, their armbands ripped off, and they're outta here! And they have no idea who saw them 'cause they thought they were hiding their actions. Perhaps that will get them thinking about not doing it next time.

Personally, I've heard stories of ref's being "bought" at some of the higher-level, major events. I've also heard that being sponsored by certain manufacturers with money can have a positive effect on the way reffing is done with that sponsored team - to the other team's negative effect, if ya catch my drift here. If the tournament organizers allow this to continue, their events will become useless, and poorly thought-of. Then the attendance declines. Then the money stops coming in. Then the event dies. Tough lesson to learn.
And what of those teams that climb to fame and fortune because they can wipe cleverly - or their ref's are bought and paid for by the big sponsoring company?