AGD = Mainstream?

[Cryer]

They used to be... They WERE tournie paintball for awhile, there.

To begin, I just want to say, Tom: I'm not bashing you or AGD. I know there has been alot of threads lately questioning AGD's quality, etc. This is not one of them. I merely intend this post for suggestions on what could be done to improve AGD's image overall in the industry.

What needs to be done to bring AGD to the level that worr, or wdp is at right now. These three "titans" of the paintball world, the largest remnants of a new sport, have seem to gone in different dirictions with different levels of success.

AGD seems like they have the most reliable marker of the three, as well as a good portion of the overall innovations for the industry, yet they've experienced less growth of the 3. Why?

Look at the paths they've taken. Worr and WDP have made constant improvements (cosmetically, and functionally) to their line ever since they started out. AGD, up until a year or so ago, still used stainless steel on all their markers. How old is the first double trigger frame offered from AGD? 2 1/2 years. Before that, you could only get the carbon fiber frames from AGD.
Aside from that, the Retro valve (an amazing innovation and a decade or so before its time) and the emag were the only high-profile innovations or changes we've had.

We literally, still look like we did back in '94. Although it seems shallow to say this, Thats what one of AGD's biggest problem is. Aesthetics. Xmags are the only marker available from AGD that seem to meet the industry standard as far as looks go. And they cost 1300.

Everything else, as we all know can be made to look sweet, but at the owner's expense and effort. Someone buys a Timmi knowing they can get it in literally any color/combo they want. They would probalby refrain from an emag because all they see is black and stainless.

Here are a few suggestions I've come up with that I think would improve AGD's image in the industry:

Bodies incororated with rails (SFL & Xmag Style)
Smoother finishes (like the 'machined' look of the ule bodies... really needs to go)
More options as far as color/style.
Completely do away with all stainless parts ASAP.

You know how worr has different levels of marker (ie 04 vertical feed, outkast, black magic, orracle)? we need a clearer stucture like that.

Any other opinions?
Tom if you dont like this, feel free to delete it or something...

[Butterfingers]

If the kids see it on TV or magazine or in a pro's hands they will buy... They dont care what the stupid thing looks like.

What AGD lacks is an agressive marketing strategy that is it.

[Vendetta]

Everything in the world today is about marketing. Which is sad.

I for one, prefer that AGD spends its $ on R&D and not marketing.

[Brophog]

Mags aren't COOL anymore....so say the kids.

During the Mag/Cocker days they were cool because they were considered the top dog, and henceforth received a lot of press coverage.

Of course, like it or not, Angels and Cockers are becoming less cool by the second. With so many Cocker variants out there, they've lost coolness points due partly to saturation. Angels are becoming less cool due to other more cool electros on the market, namely Timmies.


What makes something cool....heck if I know. With the current media coverage solely on the NPPL/PSP tourney scenes, I'd reckon a lot of it starts there.

[fallout11]

I wouldn't worry to much.

AGD will be in a pretty decent marketing position if Smart Parts wins.

[Cryer]

Re: ...

Originally posted by RogueFactor


How do you figure?

Its my undertanding that AGD is also a part of the lawsuit. How does SP winning help AGD?

I think he means that if SP wins, people will switch to mech because E-guns are too expensive.

Although I dount think its wise to assume that.

[fallout11]

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking....

AGD is in a good position in a future market, where E-guns are more expensive than they are presently.
AGD has one of (if not the) best mechanical markers available, and for an ever decreasing price.
I don't expect them to corner any market, by any sense of the word, and the E-mag and X-mag market will suffer some , possibly leading AGD to discontinuing one or the other, whichever is least profitable.

But I don't expect AGD will suffer as much as some companies, and sales of the RT will increase without a doubt.
Rec and scenario ballers don't buy $1200+ guns, and the RT is already one of the fastest mechanical markers available.

Smart Parts, obviously, will be the real winner. But I expect Tippman, and, to some extent, AGD and WORR, to be okay.

[Remington]

In my opinion AGD has one of the nicest lines of markers going, the only thing lacking, as was previously mentioned, is marketing. I also understand how AGD as a company can't sponosor more teams, or advertise more because all that costs money and AGD doesn't have the billions of dollars to spend that companies such as BE has. But, I still love what AGD does with what money it does have, and I don't think it should change. If you think about it, markers are a lot like cars. Some people like to buy the real glitzy, luxury cars because they want the attention. Then there's other people that buy a car that can bring them into the backcountry, through various elements, and still work like the day they bought it. AGD makes markers that can go through hell and back and still work great and the people who are fortunate enough to buy a product from AGD know that.

[fallout11]

I just wouldn't want AGD to become a Nike.

Nike spends less than $3 per shoe it makes on labor and materials. It's advertising budget makes up almost 85% of it's annual financial outlay.

Every time they sign a multi-million dollar deal to be endorsed by some athlete, the cost of Nike shoes goes up, and the percentage of what you pay for a pair that actually goes to R&D declines.

[Steelrat]

Im guessing that SP isnt going to make its royalty demands too extreme. Its easier for them to collect money off the guns other people sell than it is to make them and sell them on their own. So don't count on an electro-less future to save AGD.

Im thinking that AGD is just waiting til the turmoil dies down to make any radical product changes. And though marketing helps, WDP has THE best marketing out there, and its evident that their ship is slowly sinking.

[fallout11]

As much as I hate to admit it, Steelrat, I fear you may be correct.

If SP only asks for an extra $80-$100 a gun, little will change in the big picture, except that SP's guns will be a little more competitive in the market place (increasing their market share), and they'll get rich by "skimming" all the other companies sales. At least for 14 more years (when the patent expires).

Time will tell, I suppose.

[yellow dart]

If Smart Parts were to win the lawsuit i dont think there will be many changes, other then the fact that the prices for electros will rise. Technology is always advancing. I wouldnt be suprised if these other companies have other ideas for a mechanical markers. Most of them have come to far to be run over by a greedy company. Companies adapt to the market and will do whatever they have to do to stay afloat.
I dont believe this lawsuit is AGD's big break. If people revert back to mechanical markers do you think they're all going to come running back to AGD? No, they'll go back to cockers! Why? Because WGP has a better marketing scheme. Look at all the hype, cockers have closed bolts, better accuracy right? They can shoot farther right? It's all hype! Mags have a bad reputation of being gas hogs, blenders, etc. Everytime i go to S.C. Village i always have people come up to me and ask me what kind of gun is my xmag and what's the thing on the side of the gun(warp). After playing w/ them, they always come up to me and say they had no idea that a mag could shoot that fast and how they could barely see me when i was shooting at them. They get all excited about the product and by the time they leave the park that excitment is gone and they'll never hear anything about a mag agian. There are those few that think about buying a mag but are quickly discouraged by friends saying, they're gas hogs and blenders, buy a timmy and shoot 30bps. Well i kind of got off on a tangent there. I guess what i'm saying is if AGD doenst start doing some aggressive marketing their situation will never change. It takes money to earn money.

[GT]

Originally posted by fallout11

Rec and scenario ballers don't buy $1200+ guns,

that is completely untrue. I am not sure where you play but there are multitude of 1k+ dollar guns that the kiddies tote like laysoya....

Who do you think supports this industry? Certinaly not the 1-2% that are tourney players.

[fallout11]

Originally posted by gtrsi


that is completely untrue. I am not sure where you play but there are multitude of 1k+ dollar guns that the kiddies tote like laysoya....

Who do you think supports this industry? Certinaly not the 1-2% that are tourney players.

Tourney players are already getting 90% of their advertising dollars.
But you're right, most of their revenues come from rec ballers.
A bit of a disparity?

[fire1811]

the question that still remains is
does AGD WANT to be mainstream???


i dont recall hearing tom say he does?

why assume he wants to be
maybe he is happy with the stream he is in